Just clone them off the refit if it is for these tmp era ships. Unless you mean where, not many options short of that spine ridge and that is if it clear the bridge dome. If not leading edge of the saucer.
then again it is a cargo ship.
only 16 samples? I am usually in the 60~90 for semi gloss surfaces.
Thanks EG. I’m trying to decide how to do photon torpedo launchers.
Oh and 16 samples on each of these.
Which sampling? Light samples? Reflection samples? I found those two did a lot towards cutting my render noise in LW2018. Of course, general scene render sampling never hurts either.
Guessing material/gloss/reflection samples, least it is what I replied assuming by the looks of it as it sparkles all over anything with bounced light but LW has that uh "bug" and I forget what ver it is and what or if there was a fix for it.
With spots all over the object like that, I'm guessing either reflection or light samples. It took me quite a bit of digging to find all of the places with sample rates in Lightwave.
Good comments. Thanks. @evil_genius_180 I am only aware of the samples setting on camera properties. I'd love to know the other settings.
@MadKoiFish: In older versions of Lightwave, 16 render samples seemed to be plenty. I'll have to bump that up. And you very well could be right. It might look better before the surfacing if I take out all reflectivity of the surface. I just realized it is scattering off the surface dubbed "default" (the main hull) onto the saucer which does have a surface since it was borrowed from my 1701 model.
Interesting choices so far. I was going to skip photon torpedo launchers on mine. As a cargo ship, it doesn't make much sense to have a ton of weapons. I expect the ship would always have an escort of some sort.
I wonder, where are you planning to have the impulse engines?
Yeah, max has sampling to some extent in materials gloss and ref sections. And then there is Final Gather that has various sampling rates. Usually that affects overall scene details and things like shadows. (well any artifacts appear there) And I think if you use the default MR gizmos those have shadow sampling but it generally isnt something you fart around with much. Just avoiding area shadows and anything that says MAP in the name helps. >_>
Guess it is what happens with long lived software. Things I so would like to see go away in max are the standard renderer and materials. Keep mr and add arnold or vray. hah but the architectural firms would probably balk at that.
Good comments. Thanks. @evil_genius_180 I am only aware of the samples setting on camera properties. I'd love to know the other settings.
If you open your light properties, you'll see "Samples" towards the bottom. There are also "Volumetric Samples" but I wouldn't worry about those unless you're using volumetric effects. For the other settings, they're on your Render Properties panel. Under the "Render" tab, you have sampling for Reflection, Refraction and Subsurface Scattering. Those are all set at 1 by default, where your light samples are set at 4 by default. I personally have been rendering with the light samples at 10 and the other three set at 8. For my camera, I've had it set on adaptive sampling with a minimum of 50 and a maximum of 100 for WIP renders. For beauty shots and the one "art" image I've done in LW2018, I cranked that up to a minimum of 100 and a maximum of 200.
The only noise I haven't been able to eliminate is the noise caused by luminous materials. I have no idea why this is, but stuff like my running lights and bussard collectors shining light on the hull creates noise. I've combed through the settings looking for something to fix this but I've come up with nothing so far. But, I found this was an issue in Blender as well, so it seems to be just a quirk of this kind of render engine.
In max that is usually tied to the FG part of mental ray EG the particles shot for the light in a scene. So you need to up those settings. Sadly it means mega long times as for some reason self lighting objects take way more to smooth out. Like some sort of inverse square. 2 4 8 16 etc. I am sure it is similar in LW.
Interesting choices so far. I was going to skip photon torpedo launchers on mine. As a cargo ship, it doesn't make much sense to have a ton of weapons. I expect the ship would always have an escort of some sort.
I actually need this for an assault troop ship. I may put shuttles in what appear to be cargo containers. Hence the torpedoes, although you have a point about an escort.
@evil_genius_180 and @MadKoiFish: I did a render with 36 samples and it was better. However, I am pretty sure I need a surface texture. I didn't have this problem with the Vor'Cha. I will be taking a look at the other sampling.
Today I have been working on redoing my 1701-A engines, using the Big Jim drawings and my movie model shots. My current engines are somewhat low poly. Also, I did them so long ago, I have been looking forward to doing them again with some new techniques I've learned in Lightwave.
You could grow out some torps just forward of the "compartments" above those protrusions on either side of the spine.
Been really resisting the urge to make my own refit, as I really lack in that era for models. That and a big old D. Just loath setting up orthos for them in max. It has really dreary abilities to properly make use of anything larger than 1024X1024. Just down samples everything into mud or your stuck working with sluggo-viewports.
Yeah I think a good part of it is the "blank" material. The ones in max often have overblown bounce reactions. Vorcha though is very matte while tmp ships are usually very glossy. (well least when there isn't a ILM guy with a can of matte paint)
It's not a direct how to guide on getting rid of noise, but I found it did help get me in the right direction.
Also, when you said 16 was enough previously, I assume you're referring to traditional anti aliasing. Traditional AA maxes out at 16 and is mainly used to smooth the edges on 3D objects. This newer style AA is totally different and 16 is a pretty low number that results in a lot of render noise. In Lightwave, I find 50 isn't bad, but 100 is even better for most scene noise elimination. But, it's all about playing with settings and rendering to see the results to find levels you're happy with. Also, LW does have a built in noise reducer, I think that's also in the render properties. I haven't played with that.
You could grow out some torps just forward of the "compartments" above those protrusions on either side of the spine.
You're right with me. I put those narrow raised areas on either side of the spine to consider a while. They are a possible place a Refit era torpedo opening could be located. I was considering whether there was enough height for personnel, since we saw torpedoes load with personnel standing around (playing bagpipes) when the deceased Spock was shot into space. Considering the windows/floors on the saucer, there is probably ample room.
Just loath setting up orthos for them in max. It has really dreary abilities to properly make use of anything larger than 1024 X 1024. Just down samples everything into mud or your stuck working with sluggo-viewports.
I hear you. I just spent a good deal of time lining up the engine drawings from big Jim. Worse yet, his lines are so thin (which is good in a way), they are hard to see.
It's not a direct how to guide on getting rid of noise, but I found it did help get me in the right direction.
Also, when you said 16 was enough previously, I assume you're referring to traditional anti aliasing. Traditional AA maxes out at 16 and is mainly used to smooth the edges on 3D objects. This newer style AA is totally different and 16 is a pretty low number that results in a lot of render noise. In Lightwave, I find 50 isn't bad, but 100 is even better for most scene noise elimination. But, it's all about playing with settings and rendering to see the results to find levels you're happy with. Also, LW does have a built in noise reducer, I think that's also in the render properties. I haven't played with that.
I think this is going to be really helpful. Thanks my friend.
Turned up the Samples to 50 and have almost finished my engine corrections. Then I worked on some hull details and am trying out photon torpedo launcher placement as well as impulse engine placement.
Very nice. Are you using shadows in those renders above?
Really like the internal detail on the Vor'Cha bussards. I'd recommend fogging the glass up a fair bit, though. None of the Trek bussards are transparent enough to see through them clearly into the interior - the glass always tends to be blured so that the internal components are inferred, or just visible.
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So here is the front, complete with 2019 Lightwave Lint.
Looks like someone needs to up their sampling.
Oh and 16 samples on each of these.
then again it is a cargo ship.
only 16 samples? I am usually in the 60~90 for semi gloss surfaces.
https://madkoifish.files.wordpress.com/2019/10/kg_md_jc_1701a_studio_model-008.jpg
https://madkoifish.files.wordpress.com/2019/10/kg_md_jc_1701a_studio_model-009.jpg
https://madkoifish.files.wordpress.com/2019/10/kg_md_jc_1701a_studio_model-010.jpg
Which sampling? Light samples? Reflection samples? I found those two did a lot towards cutting my render noise in LW2018. Of course, general scene render sampling never hurts either.
@MadKoiFish: In older versions of Lightwave, 16 render samples seemed to be plenty. I'll have to bump that up. And you very well could be right. It might look better before the surfacing if I take out all reflectivity of the surface. I just realized it is scattering off the surface dubbed "default" (the main hull) onto the saucer which does have a surface since it was borrowed from my 1701 model.
I wonder, where are you planning to have the impulse engines?
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Guess it is what happens with long lived software. Things I so would like to see go away in max are the standard renderer and materials. Keep mr and add arnold or vray. hah but the architectural firms would probably balk at that.
If you open your light properties, you'll see "Samples" towards the bottom. There are also "Volumetric Samples" but I wouldn't worry about those unless you're using volumetric effects. For the other settings, they're on your Render Properties panel. Under the "Render" tab, you have sampling for Reflection, Refraction and Subsurface Scattering. Those are all set at 1 by default, where your light samples are set at 4 by default. I personally have been rendering with the light samples at 10 and the other three set at 8. For my camera, I've had it set on adaptive sampling with a minimum of 50 and a maximum of 100 for WIP renders. For beauty shots and the one "art" image I've done in LW2018, I cranked that up to a minimum of 100 and a maximum of 200.
The only noise I haven't been able to eliminate is the noise caused by luminous materials. I have no idea why this is, but stuff like my running lights and bussard collectors shining light on the hull creates noise. I've combed through the settings looking for something to fix this but I've come up with nothing so far. But, I found this was an issue in Blender as well, so it seems to be just a quirk of this kind of render engine.
I actually need this for an assault troop ship. I may put shuttles in what appear to be cargo containers. Hence the torpedoes, although you have a point about an escort.
Probably at the back on the upper and lower center spine. 4 in all, like the engines.
Today I have been working on redoing my 1701-A engines, using the Big Jim drawings and my movie model shots. My current engines are somewhat low poly. Also, I did them so long ago, I have been looking forward to doing them again with some new techniques I've learned in Lightwave.
Been really resisting the urge to make my own refit, as I really lack in that era for models. That and a big old D. Just loath setting up orthos for them in max. It has really dreary abilities to properly make use of anything larger than 1024X1024. Just down samples everything into mud or your stuck working with sluggo-viewports.
Yeah I think a good part of it is the "blank" material. The ones in max often have overblown bounce reactions. Vorcha though is very matte while tmp ships are usually very glossy. (well least when there isn't a ILM guy with a can of matte paint)
https://docs.lightwave3d.com/plugins/servlet/mobile?contentId=1861427#content/view/1861427
It's not a direct how to guide on getting rid of noise, but I found it did help get me in the right direction.
Also, when you said 16 was enough previously, I assume you're referring to traditional anti aliasing. Traditional AA maxes out at 16 and is mainly used to smooth the edges on 3D objects. This newer style AA is totally different and 16 is a pretty low number that results in a lot of render noise. In Lightwave, I find 50 isn't bad, but 100 is even better for most scene noise elimination. But, it's all about playing with settings and rendering to see the results to find levels you're happy with. Also, LW does have a built in noise reducer, I think that's also in the render properties. I haven't played with that.
You're right with me. I put those narrow raised areas on either side of the spine to consider a while. They are a possible place a Refit era torpedo opening could be located. I was considering whether there was enough height for personnel, since we saw torpedoes load with personnel standing around (playing bagpipes) when the deceased Spock was shot into space. Considering the windows/floors on the saucer, there is probably ample room.
Would love to see that. The windows on the D are excruciating. I haven't finished mine yet for that reason.
I hear you. I just spent a good deal of time lining up the engine drawings from big Jim. Worse yet, his lines are so thin (which is good in a way), they are hard to see.
I think this is going to be really helpful. Thanks my friend.
More work on the Transport.
Really like the internal detail on the Vor'Cha bussards. I'd recommend fogging the glass up a fair bit, though. None of the Trek bussards are transparent enough to see through them clearly into the interior - the glass always tends to be blured so that the internal components are inferred, or just visible.