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3D-= MKF random trek thread =-



  • ashleytingerashleytinger715 Central OhioPosts: 691Member
    You've stumbled across the real reason Geordi could never eject the core. The constrictors or whatever weren't locked or frozen, the gave them a core that fit going in but it wasn't coming out without some other serious help ;)
    Warp Propulsion Laboratory
  • markmasseymarkmassey390 StaffordshirePosts: 510Member
    That's a very, very nice gray line :)
  • FreakFreak1059 Posts: 4,327Member
    That is one nice looking core
  • FULCRUMFULCRUM2 Posts: 3Member
    I deleted all the hi-res bluray photos of the Enterprise-D saucer separation cause you said you had everything. Trek Core has all the hi-res saucer separation screencaps from the Blu-ray. The battle bridge perspective images should also be helpful.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish3404 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,496Member
    edited August 2020 #2016
    Never said that about the cobra head said that about the christies photos as I have everything those 2 guys shot from way back when they hosted the photos themselves before other sites stole them.

    Pretty much if you can find it in a 30min google search I have it. Spend probably 30 to 40 hrs trolling the net for refs. I was just thinking someone might have stuff that is no longer online. exp older photos etc.

    Dunno what you mean about battle bridge perspectives. If there were other shots of it head on or from the side at a close enough distance to see anything I do not remember it.

    I originally though I could work from that one photo of the hero part but then noticed changes in the model parts as shot in the videos. Even when compared to other saucerless photos from magazines etc that I have. (posted them here already) I would have expected them to just remold that hero or efx only prop off the original molds as the ship was just cast fiber resin.

    Post edited by MadKoiFish on
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish3404 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,496Member
    Figured I better put Link away for a bit and get back to work on this. Not a huge change but the entire secondary hull is now a collapsed mesh and is in stages of optimizing of unwanted loops and edges that do little to alter geometry.

    I am however looking at the backside and the rim area those "tails" of the sensor grooves are in and it renders funk but geometry wise are ok. SO I might have to redo those and alter my loops and flow to eliminate it I think it is a small increase in curvature that isn't noticeable but renders as a soft edge.



    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish3404 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,496Member
    Well being smoke addled I decided all that work prior is being flushed. It is finally getting better least until this evening as the fire stink is back. Either wind has changed or a new one has flared up. UGH been a horrible week here.

    Anyhow taking a break to do some conversions. A real hell as well as max can only have 24 materials at any time in the editor. Add in things are lagging and hanging non stop with these older files. I think it is something in the materials and metal ray shaders. This was a issue that I had in max 2013. Lots of sitting around waiting for the pc to unhang. Does it when just adjusting color.
    The materials are all in flux atm as a lot of what I had on mental ray seems to not translate in vray. It could just be the hdri I am using for lighting. Odd as it was not a issue with the other meshes I was working with up to now.

    long and sort, it seems just as frustrating as working on the D is. . .

    heh also need to look at what I need to do for ship self lighting as so far I am not happy with the vray gizmos. set them to a warm light and I get pure white.

    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • BrandenbergBrandenberg1486 CaliforniaPosts: 1,855Member
    Wait, what ship is this?
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish3404 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,496Member
    render of the converted parts. The mental ray stuff does not stand out that much but anything outside of solid gloss is lost. Spent more time on that dome transparency as nothing translates from mental ray. It is the one thing I dislike in Vray the most outside of the light gizmos.
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • GuerrillaGuerrilla514 HelsinkiPosts: 2,710Administrator
    Oh nice. I always liked that one.
    Comco: i entered it manually in the back end
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  • lewisnivenlewisniven1597 UKPosts: 334Member
    Sooooo much detail. B)
  • markmasseymarkmassey390 StaffordshirePosts: 510Member
    edited August 2020 #2023
    Sitting modeling panels for my ship, been doing it for about 2 hours now.. Decide to check out sfm.. see mcf has posted another set of cool images........


    Awesome as usual.. :)
    Post edited by markmassey on
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish3404 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,496Member
    Cargo bay, lighting is temp as it is just the ship light material applied to any emissive surface inside. Might be a mistake doing so, so I will probably at least differentiate it from the external lighting material once the renders finish. Dunno what my plans were with the white bulkheads. I do think I was suppose to put a curtain door over the main entrance and the aft area to avoid loose shut5tles ro other crap from the landing and staging deck sliding back and into the larger space. I will need to remember to at least model in a dark strip to hint at stowed doors and alter the floor markings so it has space for it.
    Ok quit the render as I was not willing to wait for the results.

    Need to find cheaters to times such as interpolators vs shooting a crapload of rays or whatever vray does. Lacks sampling on materials so likely something buried in one of the truncated menus.

    I also need to redo the ship name too large and well that surface no matter what I do to try to avoid projected distortion the sloped nature of that hull is going to distort the lettering no matter what I do as I want it square to Z not curving.

    Also have some dodgy windows I might have to address. Add in some gloss settings that is causing the clipping when lights are at the right angle.

    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • ViperViper1085 Posts: 654Administrator
    edited August 2020 #2025
    MadKoiFish wrote: »
    render of the converted parts. The mental ray stuff does not stand out that much but anything outside of solid gloss is lost. Spent more time on that dome transparency as nothing translates from mental ray. It is the one thing I dislike in Vray the most outside of the light gizmos.

    That's because MentalRay was very hacky with its shaders. Vray models are way more accurate.
    MadKoiFish wrote: »
    Need to find cheaters to times such as interpolators vs shooting a crapload of rays or whatever vray does. Lacks sampling on materials so likely something buried in one of the truncated menus.

    VrayLightMtl is slower than a regular vray light. As for sampling, I'm curious about what you are doing to make the render so slow, or better yet, what do you consider slow. The default sampling settings should be enough to get you where you need. You then only need to change the noise threshold. You can squeeze more performance from the other settings, but it'll require a lot of experimentation and a deep understanding of how vray operates.

    And of course, you can use nvidia denoiser to bring the render times down.

    Post edited by Viper on
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish3404 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,496Member
    edited August 2020 #2026
    For wip 1080p images anything over 20min is too long. The times really bloated with the cargo floors. Wanted 2~3 hours. In the render above I gave it about 27min. Everything I have done in MR prior is 2~10min maybe 20 for full frame images.

    In general I am happy with where it is at 40%. Closest thing I see for noise is in progressive image sampler, noise threshhold which defaults to 0.01. I wanted to avoid the "render time" option as I do know what is in scene or how large can affect quality vs time. Oh then again there is a noise threshold in Global DMC too.

    Emissions mats I am using the VrayLightMtl and they have very little in controls just light color intensity and a few direct light settings. I think i am using those over the standard material self ilum is due to the amount of light or how it lights. Unless your talking about vray gizmos. Latter are not fit for the purpose I need.

    I have had only a cursory look in the settings on vray, well in the rendering menu that is. I think what I have set is default when you switch max to vray. I do need to just sit down find some tuts not full of spam and get to it.

    thinking I could screen cap the settings but sheesh. Probably easier to upload a blank project file with them set.

    edit, yeah it is mostly default settings.
    Post edited by MadKoiFish on
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish3404 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,496Member
    Well bulk of the ship is done just small bits here and there and things needing unique materials not all over the hull. Oh forgot the upper cargo bay is not in nore are the service bays in the warp cutout. oh boy. I will probably find something else I am missing. Then the fun part of rooting out anything else with some mental ray attribute. Found getting rid of anything that causes loading or render errors is a right pain in the fucking ass.

    I will be redoing the bussard internals as that is just a cavern with a D shaped cyan glow box. I will also add in details like the incomplete sensor grids along the secondary hull and other small details that were mostly seen on the ships belly. Then fine tuning of the materials like the ugly gloss blow out at hard angles to the main light source (eg sun in the hdri) You can see it in the saucer of the last post. I seem to have to fight with semi glossy objects in vray.

    Then the PITA of rigging all the lights on the ship. Gonna need to figure out how to use the vray gizmos to do that. No cones no falloff fields etc.

    Once I am done it is time to do this for what some 20 other models? Only this the jigoku the D and that utopia station are in vray. Almost makes me want to export the models into fbx and import them in as geo only and reapply all the materials that way. Heck I still have a few ships in scanline/lighttracer from before I used mental ray!

    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish3404 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,496Member
    edited August 2020 #2028
    Ok here basically everything in these renders is what is left to do. . . . heh bulk is interior rooms and those I will likely just merge into one huge object and apply the materials in mass excluding the unique floor colors and any unique lighting I think I had 3 types of self ilum lights in the rooms. Rest of it is good old one at a time. Though I might get lazy and merge things like marker lights as a single object to apply colors to those too. Wish there was a easier way to do this in max. Some of the areas are misleading as larger rooms have furniture etc in them.


    Err looking at this I seem to be missing some lifeboats on the secondary hull. Oh and I have a shuttle in there somewhere I need to do too but I should try to find the original file for that one. Though I want to apply the materials in this file to it. I had at one point default materials for all ships of X era. Wonder if i will ever be that organized again?? probably not.
    Post edited by MadKoiFish on
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • Zhor2395Zhor2395182 MN, USAPosts: 89Member
    your gorgeous reconnie has been popping up all over the place lately, thought you'd like to know =)
    "It's just like bumper cars...where everyone dies." ~Penny Robinson
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish3404 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,496Member
    Shuttle bay 1, and impulse bits from last night. Quit out the renders on the first 3 and let the 4th run overnight. prob 27min render lol. Still figuring out a set up for the impulse exhaust. Might give the vcray standard mat a go for glow as I think i can affect suface color vs emitted light but it is much dimmer. Idea is I can have red elements with a orangish glow. Then just use a clear diffuser on the grill. It will color the black shadow grills less vs using a red tinted diffuser.

    oh and I found my lifeboats for the secondary hull. . . somehow the buggy layer editor stuffed them and a few other layers into another layer. Really hate how they messed with the layer tool. It is so buggy and whack inconsistent.
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • BolianAdmiralBolianAdmiral692 Torrance, CaliforniaPosts: 2,036Member
    I just love all your ships...
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish3404 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,496Member
    OK everything I think except marker lights and interior furniture are converted.

    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • ashleytingerashleytinger715 Central OhioPosts: 691Member
    I've always loved that design. So freaking good!
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish3404 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,496Member
    Everything is done except the furniture and clearing out junk layers then flushing all the mental ray leftovers that might exist in the file.

    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish3404 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,496Member
    edited August 2020 #2035
    A bit behind on things right now but I think I have the impulse looking like it was. Maybe a bit to strong in how much light it produces.
    Yes windows are only single faced atm as vray does not seem to have "cheats" for that and I really do not want to have to go through all of them and create boxes for the glass elements right now. But given how much it warps things behind I might have to deal with it. That or apply some strange IQR numbers. ATM I am using a IQR of 1 to avoid any distortions.

    NOW left to do is finish off details (modeling) and reconsider the phaser strip materials and fine tune all the materials. Also have to look about to see what sort of suit they use for space walks in this era. Thinking I might have to make a suited figure and then convert the workbees and shuttles.

    OK maybe not as done as I thought looking at the upper deck lifeboats the maps are screwed up., Either IDs are wrong or they lost their uvws. OK no lifeboats missing ship name and number because well, I didnt do the upper pods as they did not show in the SOTL image. For some reason I did not have at least the ship name instanced but some reason they were not. JOY. So I gotta go about aligning or applying at least the ship name on the upper sets now.


    prior to adjustments to impulse and window glass.
    Adjusted glass

    OH and I have to find the rear hatches for the lower bays or if I ever had doors for those. Old renders shows I had something there at one time.
    Post edited by MadKoiFish on
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish3404 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,496Member
    oops pressed enter before I uploaded this one. Shows how the corrected glass is allowing more light through the windows. Still has that ugly clipping that I cannot seem to get rid of without loosing the brightness needed. Only option i think is to set the emissions objects as invisible. (that is if vray can do this, used to do it in mental ray to add fake drive glows and funny bussard effects)

    The clipping is the actual emissions objects or elements in the scene.
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish3404 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,496Member
    edited August 2020 #2037
    UGH irritating issue I have not run into in a long time so long I forget where the setting to fix it is.
    As seen in the image the step for rotate is like 2 or 3 deg vs any smaller increments. This occurs in any view ortho perspecti9ve etc. I need to increase the units available for view rotate as right now it is pretty useless. I discovered this most when attempting to project the stupid ship name on the lifeboats and it kept falling in between what would be square to the screen so I could no long align to view as I could not get it square.

    While that is inconvenient, right now I am composing things having that limited control is jarring as I cannot set the EXACT angle I want to the scene. Yes most scream do not use perspective to render out but when messing about it is far easier than a camera. EXP as I will still be modeling as I go. I have yet to see if this annoyance in the view change is present in the camera too. Given I wont be adjusting the camera directly and using the tools inherent with the viewport I would guess it would still remain. It is almost like mouse movement is set to SNAP to a range of units.
    animation shows one step, no steps between these angles.
    google has been utterly useless populating results from discreet's help files which all are a bit useless.

    OK, yeah uh camera is the same if not worse. It is 5deg increments really annoying as even rotating things is stepped like this. I have not had a dropped something on the keyboard (last time I did that it borked max horribly as it is filled with single key hotkeys that toggle) I have not changed anything recently either so I am guessing this is some messed up crap that came in with the merged objects.
    Post edited by MadKoiFish on
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish3404 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,496Member
    ok sorta found it via seeing even rotating objects were stuck to 5deg increments when a default scene it was like 0.01 increments.
    So it is another one of those shitty single key toggle hotkeys. . . "a" = angle snap.
    -_- toggled hotkeys should fucking NEVER be on a single key. sheesh
    SOO off I go to delete that entry.

    Either max stealing focus or a cat at night stepping on the keyboard. What I find odd is it is file specific and not related to the app itself. Meaning if someone sets things on a group project it can fux up your workflow as you wont know unless your using stock max with all the used once a year buttons on it.
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish3404 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,496Member
    Workbee train in vray. Bit lazy as I am mostly replacing materials with ones in the bal library. Tempted to put a bit of noise or something into the gloss slot of the glossy paint on the workbee itself to break things up some vs just straight gloss reflections. I think I spent more time redoing triangulation and smoothing as for some reason 2019 does not respect the older files data on these. Tint on the glass might be a bit too strong too.

    Also a quick convert of the shuttle. Somewhere some of the decals got corrupted so it was just a bit of letters here and there. Will have to replicate those later on as I am likely gonna redo this one to retain all the door controls from the old file. I also have to redo the grills and likely the nacelles as I cannot do a mix material in vray. EG take to materials and mix them using a bitmap as a mask. Least I did not see anything as such in the menu selections. I can place a older mix shader but it wont allow it to be applied to the object or selected polies. Go fig. So right now I have a reflectance mask (vrays transparency system) to create translucent and opaque sections sadly surfacing is the same on all parts unless I apply maps all over to change those as textures. For now it is displaced to create some sort of detail. For my use atm It is probably more than it needs. Lightened the window glass mat here but visually it still seems dark. Though i have found there are no longer light boxes in the shuttle. Only thing not done is to apply the metalflake mat to the delta. NOW to go in and find all mental ray shaders that might be buried somewhere or in multi mat crap. YUCK. THEN I can get to modeling. Need to finish of the rear end and areas around the nacelles I think.

    OK yeah, uh the shuttle needs the diffuse colored domes on the markers. lol mixing a span of 15yrs of models here? The shuttle being the oldest as it goes with the old balmung. Oh well.

    Tempted to redo some of the old "lost ship" images and add to them as I never did complete it.
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish3404 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,496Member
    edited September 2020 #2040
    Decided to take a break from screaming at max to model some filler items. Then end up fighting SSS and looking at other ways to approach it. Using VRayMtl here as the VRayFastSSS2 just did not give the feeling of that nylonish translucent plastic these are made of. Just do not like all the "black" that gathers in it. It is like using raytraced gizmo lights with shadows set to 0 0 0 (full black vs dark blue or redbrown)

    Also shadows make it look like a pile of acrylic transparent yellow shapes. I guess I would never get close enough to these to see most of this stuff anyhow.

    The containers as the open one shows are hollow.

    Gonna make a mess of random things I can find with google as I dunno what happened to the old ones I did. Least I could swear I made random cargo crap. :shrug
    One thing I am noticing is some sort of global AO going on that I need to find and adjust or get rid of. Seems way too aggressive or just way off scale.
    Post edited by MadKoiFish on
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish3404 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,496Member
    Yeah I have come to the conclusion Vray AO is crap. It does not gather darkness of surrounding color and light in corners but just overlays black gunge on things. Most of what I was figting was the AO set in the renderer. Just sucks I cannot control how it applys the ao or the color or to have it intensify or deepen the coulors of items receiving the AO. Can sorta do it with the shader but a global setting would be so much nicer. For now it is being turned off. BAH

    now I gotta go back and adjust my chem barrels. For they now look like wax or very odd pill containers. (loss of scale)

    Anyhow start of the blue barrel sans the divots in it. The break your back Worf container. Least I think these are them. (yellow stickers on) Mine will probably be just blue. Maybe some white stripes or something.



    Each day we draw closer to the end.
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