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3D-= MKF random trek thread =-

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  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9714 Posts: 5,302Member
    All stencils cut just got 3 panels of jambs to do then expand 8 panels of interior faces and clone around the rooms. So maybe another day and it is time to move on to something else. Only the forst few panels have rooms atm so the rest is just ship innards being lit up by bounced light as all the bridge decks are hidden.
    galaxy-0393.jpg
    Warp Propulsion LaboratoryP5ych0p4thBolianAdmiralZoidZillaBillynom8Lizzy777commandersozo
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9714 Posts: 5,302Member
    edited April 2020 #1803
    A few for the heck of it renders. 2.8m polies atm. . . . . lol
    galaxy-0394.jpg
    galaxy-0395.jpg

    galaxy-0396.jpg

    Post edited by MadKoiFish on
    P5ych0p4thsrspicerLeoBerlinBolianAdmiralashleytingerBillynom8FreakLizzy777commandersozo
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • ZoidZillaZoidZilla340 Posts: 17Member
    Looks like a solid solution. That little platform makes for a nice seating area.^^ A glass floor could also be an option.
    I would not worry too much about the holodecks they can go somewhere else, there is enough room on this ship. I mean the entire crew could probably comfortably live on just about 3 decks.

    Here is a nice video about how huge the E-D actually is.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9714 Posts: 5,302Member
    Windows rooms etc all in now. Need to reassign the new light fixture material to the cutout rooms and elsewhere. Bit odd how some rooms are dimmer than others earlier, not so varied as before but more acceptable right now. I will manage the "on" "off" states through a map that will be applied to the lighting objects I think. So I just change out the map to turn lights on and off.
    galaxy-0401.jpg
    galaxy-0402.jpg
    galaxy-0403.jpg

    Might take a bit of a break after this and do some other stuff. Time is tight though least in my estimate as I need this model done by late July. At that point I need to build framework and other bits.
    RekkertJayruLeoBerlinashleytingerBillynom8FreakWarp Propulsion LaboratoryZoidZillaLizzy777commandersozo
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • JayruJayru1037 UKPosts: 653Member
    Do what feels right and logical to you - even if it means it's different from the original. This ship was designed for it's look, not in a practical way. Don't be shy about making the design work, so that form and function flow seemlessly.

    In other words: the direction you're going in looks and feels right. Keep going :-)
    The watcher in the tower... Waiting, hour by hour...
    - Mike Oldfield
  • FreakFreak1088 Posts: 4,361Member
    MadKoiFish wrote: »
    Might take a bit of a break after this and do some other stuff. Time is tight though least in my estimate as I need this model done by late July. At that point I need to build framework and other bits.

    You don't want to burn yourself out.

    when you say to need to add framework and other bits.
    Does not mean that we will see a Battle damaged Enterprise or some other Galaxy Class?
    BolianAdmiral
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9714 Posts: 5,302Member
    edited April 2020 #1808
    Well, I want this to be as canon as possible. Reason I have thrown out so much work already to this point. As I do SOTL stuff it is clear that this model will get used at least once in it. So it has to be as close as possible to the real thing. I will take liberties in mapping as ATM I have no references of any clarity to know what was on her originally. (original tv run) I also will take liberties in the ultra detail stuff but none of that will be decernable in full ship renders even at 8k

    As for matching or practical use this was one of the first ships to have a lot of work done to make things fit. It is just they only had physical tools to work with, no cheating cgi to visualize spaces and work things in. So there are things not really thought of that just break down or do not work compared to specific official released material like the blueprints. I guess you could say it is part of the fun of it. ATM I really could just make window boxes and ignore the fine details.

    Well maybe, think I gave enough hints over the span of this build to give an idea of where I am going with this. I will do it even if things do not pan out with the usual summer/fall thing. . . wink.

    It is more of a case of I need to do some other things but yeah when it get to the things like windows it is a lot of doing the same thing over and over and over. So I usualy take a break when I meed a certain stop point.

    As a extra a 4k render, well was before I cropped it.
    galaxy-0404.jpg
    composite image
    galaxy-0405a.jpg
    for the heck of it rendered out a few passes to composite to see how easy my old workflow works in vray. Isolating glows is not as easy as well they bounce light all over the ships hull adding light I do not really want. . . . . . so that might be a bit meh. Also make the render take forever. I quit it early on and it rendered the entire time I was editing the comp image. I quit it afterwords and it was only like 1/3rd the way through lol.
    Post edited by MadKoiFish on
    Billynom8GestaltBolianAdmiralLizzy777FreakJayruZoidZillacommandersozo
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  • Zhor2395Zhor2395344 MN, USAPosts: 92Member
    So pretty!
    "It's just like bumper cars...where everyone dies." ~Penny Robinson
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9714 Posts: 5,302Member
    Ok figured I should do something so messing with the deflector neck area. Working to get that curve there the torps are but finding it hard to get that curve and not affect the neck further up as well as the lips of the opening. I have also noticed even though plans and other images show a curved deflector dish I think the real thing is flat. Image rendered close to one of the christie's auction images and if you compare the shapes around trhe deflector they hint at it being flat faced. I also think mine is not open enough at the bottom. Again this is using ortho images mostly 3d rendered orthos over just eyeballing the photos. The blueprint shapes are all wrong so I did not bother following those.
    galaxy-0408.jpg
    3d orthos I am using are mostly Tobias and the mesh used I think for that now dead 3d tour the enterprise project. I am guessing here as the orthos look a lot like that model.
    Anyhow I am extending the lip a bit as in moving footage from the tv show this overhang seems a lot larger than the photos I have lead me to think. Does not help most are in shadow and out of focus.
    JayruBillynom8FreaklewisnivenashleytingerLizzy777Zhor2395
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • JayruJayru1037 UKPosts: 653Member
    It always l;ooked flat to me on screen - and what you've done looks right. Not an easy shape to make in 3D or anyother format.
    The watcher in the tower... Waiting, hour by hour...
    - Mike Oldfield
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9714 Posts: 5,302Member
    Spent rest of the night messing with it. I think I might just have to dig in and add a loop or roll some loops to get what I want. It is just Not wanting 2 loops long the waist as I want to retain the curvature there for those windows. But a single loop makes it harder to get that side rim to roll under into the top of the upper lip. Really unsure of some of the forms in the secondary hull.
    galaxy-0411.jpg
    galaxy-0412.jpg

    galaxy-0413.jpg

    RekkertFreakLizzy777
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9714 Posts: 5,302Member
    Ok, while I hate the far edge of the lip that is how it is on the model so I have to accept it for what it is. ATM it I think is pretty close. Much better than what I had. Only issue is I cannot replicate the flat angled face that Probert has in his drawings. NOW likely the reality is the studio model does not have that flat face. Maybe it is because of some alignment of bits but I cannot get that continuous linear edge without it looking wrong.
    galaxy-0414.jpg
    galaxy-0415.jpg

    tng-probert-enterprise-deflector.jpg

    I do notice my deflector cup is a bit too deep or at least the dish part is set too far back. Maybe messing with that would fix the prior issue. But then again it would lead to it looking odd in the bottom ortho (no scoop) Anyhow I now need to make some decisions on the deflector housing in total as the pre tv series the regions where that orange color stopped vs the christie's photos. Also the latter seems to have piping and paint colors are overdrawn in places intentionally or not. I also will have to divert from official colors as my dish is way to saturated. So far no matter how flat I make it or rough I make it it is just way to bright. Even dulling it with a gray reflectance color. And yes, I have to get around to the ribs. YUCK. Anyhow barring any undisclosed errors I think I might be near ready to collapse the secondary hull after I realign the interface to the saucer and figure out what the hell is going on with the upper cobra head part. I have photos of that one stunt piece. I think this was mostly used for the mechanical clamp animations and it was pulled from the original molds. There is just very little info on this part of the ship including the cutout in the saucer itself.

    tumblr_mzqn6mcp0y1rzu2xzo1_1280.jpg
    sadly only this fuzzy image blow out image.
    galaxy-cobrahead-stunt.jpg
    I almost mistakenly used the AMT model and etrl toy as those the shape is completely different. Area that is the exterior of the ship hull actually has a ridge there that steps down to the covered parts. I do not look forward to replicating that angle and curve in front of the phaser strip. I still laugh at the fact the only major passage to the neck and saucer is that forward tan area.
    Anyhow if anyone has images larger than 800X600 in focus and not full of mag morie and not common like easily found on ex-astris or alpha beta or gamma let me know.
    Lizzy777Billynom8BolianAdmiral
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9714 Posts: 5,302Member
    Well as I say it I manage to get it to work, I got the rim of the deflector flat. Least as it is in that Probert image shows. I might have to rebuild this part as it is getting a bit sloppy. Also you can see I had to yank off those triangle insets as it was just too much visual mess not to mention the crap way max does wire frame culling now vs back in 2013.
    And yes not much change as I spent most of the time messing with PPSSPP and old games.
    galaxy-0417.jpg
    galaxy-0418.jpg
    Anyhow it still needs some work as my attempt at it is just a quick try. But i think I am much closer to locking down the secondary hull.
    Lizzy777FreakLeoBerlinBillynom8ashleytingerZoidZilla
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9714 Posts: 5,302Member
    More backtracking by way of the deflector housing. It now has lost all the bezels and other bits so it is a concave only now. BUT it is flat, a single angle vs the bent whats it I had prior. The dish itself is still curved as I have not decided which is right. It looks for all things as a flat object in the photos and tv caps but I can get most of the angles with the curved one in most of the blues or other drawings to match visually. So I dunno. I think I need to make mine taller though.
    galaxy-0419.jpg
    galaxy-0420.jpg

    One thing I do not like and have not gotten around is the puffiness of the lips. In the original model the corner where the side area where the sensor grooves is rolls under to make the top of the upper lip in the model it is really "thin" looking but no matter what I do I cannot get it to thin as it is on the model without loads of loops or breaking the angles on other areas of the mesh. I am also not going to replicate the wobbles in the original as it does not have a consistent reveal. In some why the flat faced surround is contradicted by the model in the really sharp angles.
    Note the angles the rim goes through.
    img_2021.jpg
    NOW reason I am ignoring this for the other evidenced images is because it produces a much nicer sharp angle profile. Note the last post of the full ship render how the angle on the lower lip looks off visually. It is awkward as the neck does not reflect the same angle. Nor does the overhang of the upper lip. This is where my constant reference to "same angles" in design comes in. It also plays to the other angles of this area of the ship. I cannot get the "kinked" housing face bits to work with the other evidence of how the "lips" appear at various angles.
    I think this image and another are the best for getting an idea of the shapes going on here as well.
    st-tng-strangeboxes.jpg
    sorry cannot find the untouched version of this.
    k3ca7o9bqdqf.jpg
    Latter is the one I have been working from most. As it is far sharper than any of the Christie's photos. It also makes me question the molding seen on the Christie's images as something added for Generations. The doctored image above almost hints at the upper lip matches the angle of the deflector housings innards. This image is the one that makes me most worried about shape as the lower lip has that odd curve in it but that whole area is wobbly in the model and has seams all over it. not to mentioned all those oddly penciled grids that make your eye see something that isn't in the actual form.

    I know some have said close is good enough but I really want to make this is close as possible, so much so that it could be used as a replacement of the studio model. EG cannon as bloody possible. It doe snot help I am happy with it until a few days later I look at it and photos and see all the issues. I also constantly fight wanting to alter this or that to better match my tastes. Gotta slap that mouse hand.
    Lizzy777Billynom8
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9714 Posts: 5,302Member
    Some more fiddling after looking at those 2 caps again. . . . . I also see why Tobias moved his nacelles forward as much as he did. In so many of the tv caps the bussards seem way too far back. However I have not had much trouble matching Christie's photos. So I am at a loss mine are about halfway between the various Orthos.
    galaxy-0423.jpg
    galaxy-0424.jpg
    Anyhow added height to my dish and thinned the upper lip some and altered some angles. I also altered the hull curvature from the orthos 3d and 2d to match the screen caps etc. Also in an attempt to get the shadows to be more even in how they fall on the hull. Still needs work, reason I tried to minimized how many loops I had in the base mesh. More loops or denser the base mesh the more likely you will get the wobbles.
    P5ych0p4thRekkertFreakLeoBerlinBillynom8BolianAdmiralLizzy777
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9714 Posts: 5,302Member
    Smoothed out that lower hull so no more funny shadow likes. I might have lost the undercut from the sensor rim though. I need to sit down and look through photos and check to see if I did or not. I did loose the linear froward and back edge flow that I wanted to keep to ease window cutting but getting rid of that wobble was more important for me.

    galaxy-0428.jpg

    galaxy-0429.jpg

    galaxy-0430.jpg

    It is interesting one profile drawing I have shows the D vs the TOS E and it looks like they planned to flow the sensor sides up into the neck. I wonder if this was the source of that strange curve in the neck as a compromise?
    andrew-probert-tng-1.jpg
    Dunno how correct this image is to the final model. Given the nacelles are clearly different etc.

    It is kind of tempting to approach the model based on the early drawings as some of the shapes are much nicer. Such as a more creased nacelle as seen in the above image.
    RekkertP5ych0p4thLizzy777Billynom8Freak
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9714 Posts: 5,302Member
    Started putting bits back in the deflector housing. Least up to a point as I mull over which side I want to represent in the studio model. If you note in image the left and right are slightly different. When facing the ship the left side has more of a undercut to the lower lip while the right is more like what I have. I have taken liberties in the orange area and all the bezels. They were painted differently in the TV version of the ship vs the generations paint. SO I guess this is a compromise between the two and a cgi interpro.

    galaxy-0432.jpg

    Curved and flat dish.
    galaxy-0433.jpg
    galaxy-0434.jpg
    Billynom8FreakZoidZillaLizzy777
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • Billynom8Billynom8186 Posts: 44Member
    edited May 2020 #1819
    Just a thought, Probert said he wanted the the pylons to echo the lines of the neck from the side view(you can see in his drawing above), but most photos and blue's don't seem to do this. Im not even sure the 6ft does either. which route will you take?

    Edit: Ahh, silly me. I just remembered why the 6ft didn't echo the lines. the builders said they had to alter to strengthen them. :#
    Post edited by Billynom8 on
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9714 Posts: 5,302Member
    edited May 2020 #1820
    Early block in of the top end of the join for the cobra head bit. Still a bit lumpy as I loop stuff needed for the underside into the forms that I can see in the screen caps (blurry as F) and that one blown out flash photo of the clamp stunt part. I really like Proberts drawing over what was on the ship itself so MAYBE. . . . I just like the flow lines. The actual model part had that soft curve up to the top. What I cannot figure out is if the top area as FLAT to the world or was sloped or not. Here I have it flat to make dealing with those lifeboats easier but I dunno it looks a bit off. The backside and blister are all sorta eyeballed atm and really rough objects stuck on to complete the form for now.
    galaxy-0435.jpg
    Plan is to model all this then detach a clone of it for the saucer undercut. That is where I will have a lot of manual work to round the hull etc. Not ot mention the saucer is an a mess of parts and pieces atm.

    Bah had to re-render it with a different HDRI. This one shows off more of the meh aspects of the forms I am dealing with mainly the rim area near where the impulse drives are on the saucer. I just do not like the curvature. Also do not look forward to warping a damned phaser strip to that shape. EXP when you look at caps from farpoint.
    ent-d-seprated-farpoint-01.jpg
    More I look the more it appears the top area is sloped.

    Really bugs me how thin it looks in the screen cap but you just cannot get it thin and still align to the backside of the hull. I mean you could do a ERTL and a lot of other physical models did and make a "step down" I almost modeled this in early on out of familiarity of that error. EXP given we only ever saw that part of the ship 3times? Cannot really count generations as it was only a few dozen pixels wide and blew up after a few frames.
    Post edited by MadKoiFish on
    Lizzy777
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • markmasseymarkmassey512 StaffordshirePosts: 586Member
    Great work as usual, love the bussard collectors, they really sing.. Always love your work in progress renders, She's coming together really nicely..
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9714 Posts: 5,302Member
    Billynom8 wrote: »
    Just a thought, Probert said he wanted the the pylons to echo the lines of the neck from the side view(you can see in his drawing above), but most photos and blue's don't seem to do this. Im not even sure the 6ft does either. which route will you take?

    Edit: Ahh, silly me. I just remembered why the 6ft didn't echo the lines. the builders said they had to alter to strengthen them. :#

    As mentioned before, I will follow what is on the 6ft studio model unless there is something lacking detail to extrapolate from in canon source. I wont be using drawings over physical or use of alternative props unless said props are pulled from the original molds (cobra head stunt part) Stuff like the cobra head and symmetry issues are there for interpretation as we only have few to no resources or conflicting details. I will fall back on another source if need be if photos or screen evidence cannot clarify.

    I can see the idea of pulling the strut in the forward position to disperse weight backwards as apparently there were motors in the bussards for lighting effects. I never saw anything in the first seasons nor in Generations but a interview claimed such things existed.
    https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Galaxy_class_model



    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • FULCRUMFULCRUM3 Posts: 3Member
    I didn't want to ever comment on this thread or anything unless I had something new or significant to add, and at this point I still might not. But after reading every post I just want to bring up something up Trek Core said on April 9th thread (on twitter) about the 6ft Enterprise-D model and how it was shot. Basically, "each 'layer' of the ship -- physical model, window lights, engine lights, deflector dish, navigational lights, etc. -- were filmed separately and then composited together in post-production." So Yes, the correct path is to build off the 6ft model. But I just want you to keep in mind, how much artistic license was made on any given episode. (I don't want this project to drive you crazy) :# ;)
  • BolianAdmiralBolianAdmiral1114 Torrance, CaliforniaPosts: 2,560Member
    IDK... it almost looks like there could be a step down, as the battle bridge does kinda look a bit sunken here.

    wrfm5gyj5z2e.jpeg
  • lennier1lennier1913 Posts: 1,280Member
    Keep in mind that we're also talking about two slight variations, the separated six-footer and the detail head for the separation animation.
    uxu75ayxunmb.png
    ll42avqzcxpr.png
    bj70lnc7x0ow.png

    While that top is flat, the transition area seems a tad less sharp than it's right now.
    70k42ashm8gt.png
    BolianAdmiral
  • gerb200gerb200176 Posts: 114Member
    It almost seems like there’s a “step” in the center on either side of the battle bridge and slightly behind it that gradually smooths out at the edge.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9714 Posts: 5,302Member
    LOL yeah I know exactly what they did in post there is nothing new there. I do it every time I render a plate shot for wallpapers etc. No amount of post, least old optical post would alter physical traits.

    The head prop is just pulled off the original molds. I forget where that is stated in text. Likely that link from earlier or some magazine. It probably has paint variations and treatment variations. ATM I am ignoring all of that. other than as positional reference. Though it really is all I had to go with.

    There is no step if you still frame the generations scene from above you'll see there is no "lip"
    ent-d-generations-saucersep.jpg
    The lip on the ETRL/AMT model was a tolerances thing. It likely was then copied as canon by other places.

    My last post the head was really loose shape, some scenes I can see it doing one thing but others it isnt. That nose down (OUCH) image is a example that does not show some of the curvature that appears in the farpoint screengrabs.

    Real issue with it is it is not a simple blob shape there are crease lines that flow around it in places. It is just catching where they are and how tight they are. Example is the flat area's overall shape towards the front. No orthos really show it and only one blueprint has it but I dunno where it was sourced from. Likely yanked from the etrl instructions.;
    BolianAdmiral
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9714 Posts: 5,302Member
    Here is where I left it. Definitely from looking at things the deck is slanted forward, no way I can replicate the thinness otherwise. This render I have a slight slant to it and it is much easier to replicate the shapes and get bits flowing where I want. Dinner sorta got in the way of any more work. Take back the nose on the concrete as looking at the image it is mounted via the deflector mount to that bar. I am guessing this was for the paintjob for generations.

    galaxy-0437.jpg
    Billynom8Lizzy777Freak
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9714 Posts: 5,302Member
    Some more changes and reworked the edge flow. Still messing about.

    galaxy-0439.jpg

    galaxy-0440.jpg
    Lizzy777ashleytingerBillynom8Freak
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9714 Posts: 5,302Member
    Ok, gotta leave it here. Wayyy to late to be messing about with this heh. Again bits are blocked in only. I have just eyeballed the bits so size might be off. Gonna try aligning that one orthos out and then test it against the few photos out there. I still cannot get that one ridge you see mirrored in the cutout in the farpoint sequence.

    galaxy-0442.jpg
    galaxy-0443.jpg
    Warp Propulsion LaboratoryBillynom8P5ych0p4thRekkertFreakLizzy777
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • lennier1lennier1913 Posts: 1,280Member
    Certainly a good day's work!
    Now the transition just feels "right".
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