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3D-= MKF random trek thread =- now with v-ray. . . .



  • Billynom8Billynom875 Posts: 43Member
    After I finish my D am going to start a new one with your level of detail. :o
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish2459 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,286Member
    edited March 25 #1653
    Some distractions as I fool with surfacing.

    Also spending time looking for fonts, cannot find the set with the proper D and the right 1's Need the plain bold and outlined ones. ATM looking at what is at

    also noticing fonts do not all show up in max so even more ugh.
    Post edited by MadKoiFish on
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • Road WarriorRoad Warrior177 Posts: 781Member
    Looks great Dan!
  • nightfevernightfever236 Posts: 546Member
    Starfleet BdEx BT has the proper 1 but no serifs on the D. I was going for this though.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish2459 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,286Member
    edited March 26 #1656
    Yeah I think it was that or one of the clones I used Just having to remove the outlines for some of them. Then likely have to build the tails on the D. Sadly I have yet to get any good images of say the shuttle bay to see the text clearly. I only have good shots of the altered markings or the other studio models.

    ATM it still has outlines as I am not wanting to collapse it yet.

    Post edited by MadKoiFish on
    ashleytingerlennier1P5ych0p4thHoward DayFreakLeoBerlinBillynom8Lizzy777
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • Howard DayHoward Day586 Posts: 423Member
    Looking really good, dude! How're you liking VRay? Done any RTX + denoiser rendering?
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish2459 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,286Member
    UGH ended up remaking these I dunno how many times. 4 I think, got to involved in using ortho refs over the photos so all priors were either getting ahead of myself or having super wide thrust faces. Very annoying as I cannot just spin cutters I have to manually move everything and align based on best guess of the proper angle. Photos again for the tv version are few. . . . Also along the various versions of the ship they are never the same. I think early on they were not really the typical yellow nor what we came to recognize as RCS with the yellow red etc. The site with the colors says this is the proper color for the tv paint but ehh dunno (bottom of page)

    I am modeling them based on the generations repaint mostly for consistency and well I only have motion blurred screen caps of the original. Render just has the caoil yellow applied, Ill stick something else on as well as a more glossy red later on. Just being lazy about setting up new materials atm.

    Some ways I am worried that I might have to redo the entire saucer. I look at the grids and how they do not align to the mesh as well as how the underside and topside to not even align. But the nature of non concentric grids on the hull. EG they vary in distance inward. SO I worry about how "FLAT" they will be when cut in. Hell were the orignals on the model flat from top to bottom? Spinning the windows etc also fall into this fff damn situation too.
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish2459 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,286Member
    Howard Day wrote: »
    Looking really good, dude! How're you liking VRay? Done any RTX + denoiser rendering?

    Liking it much more than what 2017 had for mental ray, and FAR better than Arnold. Most of it is very much like MR so it has many of the same shaders and naming types.

    I tried some gpu rendering but found it a bit slow cause I only have a 1660 atm so cuda only. 6min to replicate the full ship render in the last post. No tuning. I do now see a option for what looks like cpu and gpu utilization? Again I have to read up on this more.
    Yeah I will probably have to play with things. global AO and lum seems low or off.
    Same results with my cpu and gpu chosen in v-ray gpu render devices select. took only 3min this time however. So yeah I might have to look into this as it seems to speed things up.

    I had planned to look at a better gpu once I got the calendar cash in but corona kinda screwed that.

    I have yet to really get into v-ray outside of the materials set up and fooling with lights and deciding on HDRIs for now.

    oops crashed the gpu.
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • Billynom8Billynom875 Posts: 43Member
    edited March 26 #1660


    Heres a screen cap, It looks worst then i thought :'(
    Post edited by Billynom8 on
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish2459 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,286Member
    Forgot to mention I have not been able to get denoiser to work. I set things and they just do not stick. Ok, I think it is because I did not set a save to file even though it does not save anything. lol as I compare 2 renders one is smoother when zoomed in.

    Reading up it looks like I could stuff a mess of old gpus in there and go for it. I think the chipset I have can use 3 gpus without dropping to low. run the 1660, 770 and a 460 in there. PSU might have something to complain about though. The 400 series might be too old though heh.
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish2459 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,286Member
    edited March 26 #1662
    Billynom8 wrote: »

    Heres a screen cap, It looks worst then i thought :'(

    yeah sorta what I had but I just worked from the paused player. I took liberties as the overlapped lines seemed silly to me. The large prop part made to show the door opening had the inner line trimmed out. But for the moment I am not fully sure I have the text the way I want as none of the orthos reflect on screen evidence even though it is only a few pixels in size.
    I keep hoping I will stumble onto some decent photos of the ship prior to generations and I guess season4 as to me it looks like 4 on is all the ugly lego version of the ship mostly.

    Also that image does show some details the generations ship no longer has. Namely the signal bumps for shuttle approach. Suppose I will have to use that larger hero prop for the detail. Or go at it myself and take some liberties.
    Post edited by MadKoiFish on
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • BrandenbergBrandenberg1071 CaliforniaPosts: 1,513Member
    Such a clean model. Beautiful work.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish2459 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,286Member
    One thing I dislike in v-ray or with how viewports display transparency with v-ray mats any transparent and it is clear, like nonexistent clear.
    Anyhow swapped out the rcs color to the one in those color codes and stuck the bussard material on the diffuser panels in the saucer impulse to see what kind of "off"
    look it has. Probably too red. Also added some liberties to the rcs vents. Dunno about this color. . . .
    Also have no idea why I keep getting these "rings" maybe something wonk in the material.
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish2459 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,286Member
    Decided to give mapping the saucer to the panels least in a lateral sense and see where that takes me. Least then phasers and spinning things across the hull should be a bit easier.

    It is missing some near the bridge due to loops further in under the bridge bits. Dunno how this will affect things as I do not know if those horz grids were square to the ship or not. Way it WAS those grids would move up and down along the saucer. NOW they run all horizontal. What it does do is make the saucer bulge upward some on the left and right.

    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • Billynom8Billynom875 Posts: 43Member
    I found this too, my guess is Probert's sketch is incorrect and ILM made the 6 footer with drooping grid, even the phaser banks droop down as they go to the sides. its because the phaser is equal distance to the edge and not proportional. the oval shape collapses as it travels inwards.
  • lewisnivenlewisniven1027 UKPosts: 227Member
    I'd be extremely careful about putting any serious faith in the blueprints, they're good for getting the basic shape down but they're not accurate to the model, which is where you're seeing the differences. @Billynom8 is right though in the the phaser array is equidistant to the saucer edge the whole way round. I did this buy drawing a new plane above the saucer with geo that follows the grid lines to do all the aztec work, then taking a curve from that to build the phaser.

  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish2459 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,286Member
    edited March 27 #1668
    This is what I am referring to. Matching my loops to the hull panels so that I do not have to hand cut all that shit polygon by polygon across some 400 polies. Then hand place each single window, lifeboat or other replicated item. If I can get loops to flow with the hull plates I can then automate the process. If you look I have most of all the loops following the details of the hull. Only the innermost details are off a bit as forcing those loops ends up in some fuckall distortion. Now I wont be able to match the vertical panel lines but I want those off the common geometry anyhow as that ends up in faceting due to how the math works on smoothing. Then again even the loops I want to be cut between my existing loops for the same reason.

    Also once done, the front and side curves match where earlier they never did. Most rendered orthos do not match this. Hence why I have worked from all of them vs just one set. As clearly they worked from photos and the orthos as well as they are all that is out there. Second, of the 3 sets of rendered orthos I have, all match the orthos almost exactly. Least in the top down and bottom up. Even a few 3d models I have match once scaled to fit. A few have smaller saucers vs secondary hull etc. Secondary is the one thing that NONE of them agree on. (least the 3d orthos) 2 are unknowns, one is tobias, and the other I think is foundation or some production stuff. (think they are from drexfiles or eavesdropping. sadly I never did a db for where I got images from.)


    The photos are only so good as refs as you cannot calculate in the lens distortion nor image match without any idea of what lens was used and what imager size was used. EG 55mm prime on a 35mm frame. Fullframe, CMOS, CCD, etc.

    As for oddities of it as a 3d object, it is again one of those things that is easy to do with a caliper or points to inset the grids as they just walk it out around the saucer with a set of points and scrape it into the master. It is what I would have done if tasked with it.

    Eithercase in the end I am matching views on the orthos both witefire and the cbs ones. More I compare these the more they are drawn from the same source, and I highly suspect that source is Probert's original drawings. NOW if they match or not all depends how well ILM followed them. . . . Given ILM did cross section building with foam filler between the struts I would think it is very close.

    The real issues are spinning the windows etc. Example, the tobias orthos have some windows in the ring with the registry and the phaser emitters that seem to be turned some. The most obvious ones being near the transporter emitters. Which is correct? Dunno as looking at photos is hard to tell as none are at angles that you can figure it out by. The blues look nicer at a glance as they look right but eh, dunno tobias' thought process there. Only real way to know without asking is to look at the 3d model.

    oh to timetravel and get clean photos of it prior to shooting back in 86. The panels would be much clearer and less "gone" as seen in the generations repaint. So much detail was sanded off or hidden under what looks like house paint at times.
    I mean look at how smooth and clear those grids are. To have access to the original negatives.

    Speaking of phasers, I do wonder how they did them back then. Guessing they had a long strip with add on endcaps and they would wet cast em and bend and apply the uncured resin or even rubber to the hull in sections. Hell they could have done rubber as the master just needed to hold up to being cast in alginate or whatever latex/silicone they used. I think VOY was the one with some really wobbly strips on.
    Post edited by MadKoiFish on
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish2459 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,286Member
    edited March 27 #1669
    Well back to where I was I think. And started chopping things up. ATM the grids are 2" wide and debating if I will extrude them or not. Each panel will get it's own uvw in sets like in most of my ships. As for a proper unwrap and texture I dunno yet. Plans would req doing things to the mesh that might not take to having uvw unwrapping, but I might do it anyhow and freeze the uvw and hope I do not make a mess of the quadrants later on. . . . .

    likely going to take forever as I need to compare and verify what I see in the orthos and blues. Mostly working with the blues as all the rendered orthos I have the grids are very faint and hard to see in the viewport mapping if at all. Good example now I am looking is the groove that runs parallel to the shuttle bay housing it is really close but in the photos it seems much further away and more of a rake.

    Post edited by MadKoiFish on
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • FreakFreak820 Posts: 4,004Member
    That last shot is like a photo of the actual model before they started cutting out all the windows on the saucer.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish2459 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,286Member
    Oh man, deciphering what is going on with grids in some places like near the impulse is AUUGHHHHHH. So slow going as I keep distracting to cats, tv, or just standing around not doing anything. HAH.

    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish2459 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,286Member
    Ok rest of those grids are in least loosely. There are I think some detailed things like the loops around the left and right right of way markers and other things I have not fully figured out yet. EG the mess that is the piles of paint tape and who knows what and sanded off details that is the area around the impulse drives. Oh maybe not the blues have a hoop around the lights but the photos show something else. Though that one pic of the red light is loaded with paint and tape.

    Detached the panels for temp and flip flopped the uvw to differentiate the panels some.

    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish2459 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,286Member
    Well heck I dunno. . . Had grand plans to do the panels in materials but considering swallowing the pill and doing like I did for the tos connie and deal with multi gig image maps. Least then I could work with the inverted mirrored panels exp as this ship as many canon ships do. Break hull grids on the centers of the ships. If you look at any of my own ships I always break panels centrally so they never fall on any axis halves quarters etc. Split panels also cause smoothing errors and other unwanted artifacts. Oh well. gotta follow canon and sadly as much as I hate it I might end up mapping out large sections of this ship which means separate maps for versions of this ship vs creative color layers in the materials themselves. SIGH.
    Anyhow weak sign off images, messy slightly off panels on that strange mushroom bit of hull.
    YUCK I really wanted to avoid the large image maps.

    gotta fix that shuttle bay door too. Or at least re-verify the curve on it.
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish2459 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,286Member
    Grids on the bottom. As with the top one of the grids is for the phaser strips. All a bit loose near the impulse as again this area is a bit vague. Added those cargo doors even if they are barely showing up.

    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish2459 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,286Member
    I loath these pocket windows. . . heh rounding them out and figuring out the angles etc. It is becoming apparent I cannot get a way with a standardized window cutter. Maybe the rest might work with the window cutter I used or plan to use on the flush hull windows. It is what I used for these ones (pink)
    Just hate these pockets loads of risk in how I am modeling them to get them smooth. I am avoiding the clearly over sanded bowing bit I have to wonder if I should not just model them how I would think they were built in real scale vs replicating the super soft curves on the model.
    Oh well. . . . .

    Oh also those shutters on the cargo doors are separate objects. I am thinking each panel is a unit that pulls in and rotates stacking up as it goes. So the blue part extrudes right into the hull. Dunno if I will model anything in there as I am not sure if I will ever use it. Or rather my plans can make use of.

    ew a bit of noise in the zoom in so might need to adjust settings again and increase denoiser. Dropped settings down to eliminate some of that rendering but not visually doing anything thing v-ray seems to do. Seriously I will zoom in 4X and not see anything going on. lol.
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • FreakFreak820 Posts: 4,004Member
    Looking good Dan
    MadKoiFish wrote: »
    Oh also those shutters on the cargo doors are separate objects. I am thinking each panel is a unit that pulls in and rotates stacking up as it goes.

    That how I always saw those doors open.
    Shame we never got to see it in the show.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish2459 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,286Member
    Oh yeah opinion needed, should I try to match the early season window lighting? it was a mix of very blue cast light to sometimes a greenish hue and some darker whites. I think some of it was due to the resin and the fluro tubes as well as the composite pass. Or continue to use a comfortable to us white point for interior fixtures and let the rooms bounce the light as it sees fit. I can adjust the glass or physical material elements to replicate the classic light.

    I do not know if I will replicate the on and off lights with the canon ship like I did for my tos connie though. That and over time some dimmed or the change in models affect things. The latter eps the windows all sorta go white or warm toned.

    Since I am posting this might as well post the windows interior etc.

    on to the next set. . . or maybe some early uvw as I think I am close to done with messing with this inset section of the hull short of some possible greebs for extras. I will probably pull off all the green decals on the inner section around the Yacht.
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • ashleytingerashleytinger452 Central OhioPosts: 511Member
    I really like the internal lighting you've got going on here.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish2459 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,286Member
    Ok got carried away doing silly things. I needed a break from small pushing of verts and edges and cutting ugly pockets. So I now have a docking ring and bay for the yacht. It is loosely based on the Probert painting. I cannot get some of the room details as seen due to those aft rooms and the forward window bay. BUT I will try to get the back and side walls in. Braces are done to the best I can guess at what is in the image. 10 struts total. All of the rings are based on the "bumpers" in the painting and they fit with some features on the yacht.

    A bit if a ugly as seen from inside render too. Beams etc do not intersect in a pretty way but are not really meant to be seen from this angle. That and I have a lot of work to do like turning some edges and what not. I should see if v-ray had a rounder for material corners like MR had.
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • lewisnivenlewisniven1027 UKPosts: 227Member
    edited March 30 #1680
    Just out of interest, is your sub-d still active on the saucer, as in you're cutting all the panel lines in in subd?
    Post edited by lewisniven on
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish2459 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,286Member
    oh no way it has been frozen. It is in multiple parts right now but I retain a clone of the subdiv cage just in case something is off or I discover a detail that will make me patch in or remold parts.

    It would be nearly impossible to cut grids into a shape like that with subdiv exp when at a factor of 3. Might squeeze by with a single iteration of but it would still create some real ugly wireframes.

    Screen cap of the current shape of the "room" off the yacht. not so sure yet if I will keep the larger areas. Might push them back in with a larger walkway than what I had prior.

    Each day we draw closer to the end.
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