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3D-= MKF random trek thread =-

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  • lennier1lennier1913 Posts: 1,280Member
    Rick Sternbach actually adapted that idea of the bridge module being able to detach as a large lifeboat. That's why you see RCS thrusters in the corners on Voyager's module.
    cqdrdsjsba79.png f0w43e04f5jo.png

    Lizzy777
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9714 Posts: 5,302Member
    I vaugely remember the model from way back having that bridge as a seprate ship you glued in. It is just wehen you look at the blues it shows a lower hull on the thing so it could be something Sternbach suggested. Though if I remember right he was the prop designer for tng. Not to mention older photos of it show it being loose.

    Personally i think there is too much of this "youll be safe" sort of stuff piled on in a lot of this stuff. "your consequences mean nothing cause you can run away!" Life boats I can see detaching bits of ship, not so sold on the logistics of enabling these things just makes a huge mechanical nightmare. But hey, it's there so I model it and it will be useful later. "wink" "wink"
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • lennier1lennier1913 Posts: 1,280Member
    edited March 2020 #1624
    He was a prop designer most of the time, Andrew Probert designed most of season 1 and the general style language, though Rick Sternbach later took over many of his tasks (some went to others), leading to him also designing spaceships like the Cardassian Galor class cruisers.
    Post edited by lennier1 on
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9714 Posts: 5,302Member
    edited March 2020 #1625
    Also I forgot he was super for the official blueprints so. . . .



    ughh, these windows on such a dense mesh is annoying. Noticing pro-bollean in max 2019 is not as clean as 2013. Almost consistently it adds 1 extra loose vert per edge. Where this only occurred once in a while in 2013. EG I spend most of my time removing them. Have to say vray hides a lot of bad mesh modeling so it might make me lazy or more prone to being sloppy. It is not as sensitive to wobbles in a mesh as mental ray it seems. Then again it could be due to the use of a hdri. Doing hdri lights as well v-ray lights are annoying. Worse than photometrics in MR. Actually max needs to get with it and set up viewports to work with commonly used renderers. V-ray mr(well less so now nvidia bought and killed it) arnold etc. As all of them display screwed up in the viewport. Often just blows everything out so modeling is impossible.
    Post edited by MadKoiFish on
    lennier1Warp Propulsion Laboratory
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9714 Posts: 5,302Member
    Ok a bit slow as distractions got in the way and having to redo some of the jambs as for some reason rounded corners were flattening out making for faceted corners. Interiors are just white rooms. Probably add tan carpets and some int maps. The forward rooms are a bit of a unknown as the blues show them looking like machine rooms. But why 8 windows for that.
    galaxy-0164.jpg
    galaxy-0165.jpg
    galaxy-0166.jpg
    What bothers me is how close they are to the walls but it is how they appear on the model so meh. Same could be said about the tops too as the forward ones do not leave much room in the ceiling. Randomly lit too as I do not know which are or are not at this stage. Not that it likely matters.
    Lizzy777Billynom8
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9714 Posts: 5,302Member
    edited March 2020 #1627
    Placing some color onto it to match the photos of the generations paint. I think the teal and ligth blue pattern a bit meh. I am also having to use the generations paint for the patterns as finding anything of the old paint job to match to a bit of a pain. Conference room is in and I am fighting v-ray glass as no matter what I di short of making a shell object EG trebling the poly count I get a ugly lensed effect through it. So yeah odd reflections etc.
    galaxy-0169.jpg
    galaxy-0170.jpg
    galaxy-0171.jpg

    erm looking at it my floor in the conference room might be a bit too low.
    Post edited by MadKoiFish on
    Lizzy777ashleytingerBillynom8P5ych0p4thWarp Propulsion Laboratoryxiaorobear
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9714 Posts: 5,302Member
    edited March 2020 #1628
    More work on the interior. Not sticking to any one interior set up as it wont be seen least for anything I worry about dating it by. Just using some random chairs from another mesh for now. Will need to make some of those purple highbacks at some pint and get the table set up better.
    galaxy-0174.jpg
    galaxy-0175.jpg
    yup gotta use shelled objects for proper glass in v-ray, this 2side shader just does all sorts of strange things. Sucks as it means double the face count on exposed glass then add all the rim polies. UGH that alone on this ship is probably going to be 250k polies.
    Post edited by MadKoiFish on
    Rekkertlennier1Zhor2395Lizzy777Billynom8
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  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9714 Posts: 5,302Member
    Fettle fettle, or more like avoidance of collapsing the mesh and moving on to the next stage. lol. Welded on those stands for the struts/nacelles. I think I have them closer to what is on the model and attempted to get the strut sweep closer to the model as well. Oddly they look nothing like any of my ortho refs. The upper plinths the nacelles rest on though is a complete meh as from one angle they look one way from another they look different. Guess another one of those things I just have to fudge as best I can.
    galaxy-0177.jpg
    table and interior
    galaxy-0179.jpg
    angle on the side of the spine.
    galaxy-0181.jpg
    galaxy-0182.jpg
    back of neck, and base of the neck.
    galaxy-0183.jpg
    back of neck angles/curve.
    galaxy-0184.jpg
    merged nacelle mount to strut and adjusted struts.
    galaxy-0185.jpg
    another angle.
    Zhor2395Lizzy777P5ych0p4thBillynom8LeoBerlinWarp Propulsion Laboratory
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9714 Posts: 5,302Member
    edited March 2020 #1630
    Oh and here is a render using the supplied color swatches based on the TNG tv paintjob. It is part of why I think I will just go with the Generations one and tweak it. That and as mentioned I have photo refs, while the tv paint i have some really meh jpgy images and leveled brd caps.
    galaxy-0186.jpg
    Post edited by MadKoiFish on
    Lizzy777Zhor2395RekkertBillynom8ashleytingerFreakBrandenberg
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9714 Posts: 5,302Member
    Not a huge update. Just some wires of the subdiv cages as they sit right now. Still waffling about collapsing them or going through with merging the secondary to the saucer. Pros and cons to both. 1 matching up all the edges by hand, or dealing with all the edge loops that do not match up to the saucer. Thus either having strange endings or more loops in the saucers form, or more than likely a mix of both. Then dealing with it as a collapsed cage and building the inner faces, though even in subdiv that snake head detail is a pain as I have conflicting refs as to how it is laid out towards the back. Only good ref I have is a separate prop part. and those never match to the original prop. Heck that HUGE saucer they had for generations stands out as very different from the larger studio model!

    Anyhow huge wires ahead. Click to see full sized.


    galaxy-0190.png?w=600


    galaxy-0191.png?w=600


    galaxy-0192.png?w=600


    galaxy-0193.png?w=600


    galaxy-0194.png?w=600
    lewisnivenlennier1Billynom8P5ych0p4thLizzy777Brandenberg
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • lewisnivenlewisniven2491 UKPosts: 462Member
    Looking at the pic of the ship from the front, I think the neck tapers in slightly towards the top, it's not an even width all the way up. Also im not convinced that the 'spine' is dead straight. I may be wrong on that but I've given it an ever so slight hump on mine. It doesnt look laser straight on the christies photo to my eye.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9714 Posts: 5,302Member
    edited March 2020 #1633
    The neck was tapered to match some images but after watching the show again and comparing to others most of what I had seen was due to barrel distortion in photos. I also am taking liberties here near the top of the neck as it rounds off and blends into the hull with that distorted transporter emitter on. I removed those details for continuing the neck up in a cleaner way of blending vs that rounder and rounder profile. The root of the neck look larger as the sides round outbut the flat facing bit is even. Mine should have the rounding as a iso subcage might not show it too well. BUT I could have moved it away as I was really concentrating on that curve along the neck root as I want those windows there to be at the right angle. Still not sure if I got that area just right to get those windows to lay properly.

    snip of wrong conclusion text on which spine, least I think it was as I am guessing it is what I have below

    Oh you might mean a front to back curve along the hull. Mine has a slight one as best as I could match to the orthos I am using as the nacelles block most of that view. It isnt strong though as it is hard to define the exact curve or a rough idea from the photos.
    Did find something that got lost, I am lacking that lower curve as shown in the green lines.
    d-spine.jpg
    I think this is the clearest image of it in photos at enough of an angle to get any visual clue what is going on, most are all dead on.

    Oh that area near the torp is going to be a pain due to the wire cage. I will have to recut things.

    Post edited by MadKoiFish on
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9714 Posts: 5,302Member
    Oh wow something I have way off I think and is part of why I spent so much time screwing with it is the area near the saucer and neck. The neck back flattens out vs flowing into the saucer. Cutaways of the blues had me questioning some jigs in the flow of things so comparing it to photos it is where those wonky lines come from.
    Again refs are not 100% clear but it is enough to clarify the plans wtf.
    d-saucer-jiggery.jpg
    So I gotta fix that too. It will compound a lot of things around it so. . . heh. Also neck front, looks like I did screw the root up by changing some of the wire flow. The inner control edges looping into the mouth are causing it to not round out as much as I wish to the sides of the neck.
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9714 Posts: 5,302Member
    Ok I think I have the curve back in and that tip up to the torp. I actually had lost some of the curve somewhere along the line.
    galaxy-0196.png
    I just do not know, how I will approach the upper saucer join area.
    lennier1Lizzy777Billynom8
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9714 Posts: 5,302Member
    Ok while I think of what I need to do with the upper part of the neck I decided to take a look at attempting to figure out what shapes are going on with the shuttle bay. NOW KIM there is a huge cutout here so some of it is not, there to be seen. I had planned to argue this in via box modeling and other bruteforce methods but more I looked at it the more I figured I should do it in subdiv. All of the blues are way off on this part. The area I am most worried about is the round bits towards the front really.
    galaxy-0201.jpg
    galaxy-0203.jpg
    Also a bit of a change in rendering, I tired of all the graininess of the finished renders and messed with a few settings, while it has increased that period of rendering where nothing is visually going on it I think looks a bit more resolved. It is bringing out more of the surfacing I think in the materials and some contrast between the colors. And yes, I am brute forcing the color balance. Even though I am swatching from official colors everything is coming out warm gray. Again HDRI likely is the case here.
    good example here, says it is like maybe 10% done but looks like it IS done. dunno just dunno lol.
    galaxy-0202.jpg
    Billynom8Zhor2395lewisnivenLizzy777xiaorobear
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • lewisnivenlewisniven2491 UKPosts: 462Member
    That back of the shuttle bay where the kind of butress bits come out is a pig. I keep going to back to it and mulling it but its tricky. If you look closely at the filming model it blends smoothly in to the saucer too, just to further complicate things!

    7pz6fzdtw57a.jpg
    ashleytinger
  • SeanPSeanP218 Posts: 256Member
    Keep up the great work MKF, it looks amazing so far! Definitely not a ship I would want to try and model, but I know yours will be incredible when finished!
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9714 Posts: 5,302Member
    edited March 2020 #1639
    Yup that saucer bit flattens out while the sides join in, it is all stuff that has to bo done when the saucer is collapsed. I could subdiv it all in but I think the detractors of poly count and density make it a bit inefficient for purpose. Idea is to get the rough geometry in so that when that area of the saucer itself is properly modified it will line up and when I merge the parts in I can chamfer it out. Sort of how I molded all the bridge blisters together.

    Really does suck most of the photos of that area of the ship are so fuzzy. I am having to guess the door opening is square when viewed in aft or top orthographic. This is the image I used most to reference as it is clear and at enough of an angle for me to see what is going on.
    eddsc07292.jpg
    I think that bit of saucer next to there the bulkheads divide it is going to be more annoying as it is curved to a flat spot. Again putty and sandpaper situation so it will end up being fudged about I think when the time comes.

    This is one of those bits where they just fudged things with putty and sandpaper to make it work. I think this sort of thing is the most frustrating for me with canon models. It also makes it harder to be frugal with the modeling. >_> I suppose impossible stuff will irk me later on stuff like lifeboat clearances such as the rows near the saucer join to the cobra head, windows around the sensor groove on the secondary edge etc.
    Post edited by MadKoiFish on
    P5ych0p4th
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  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9714 Posts: 5,302Member
    edited March 2020 #1640
    So far spent the afternoon watching painting shows and getting that front part of that B deck just right. I think I am getting closer to the curve that is there as well as getting the edges aligned to the saucer in an attempt to keep that curve least around the rounded front even across the length of the hull. It is really hard as those lifeboats look really shallow but the way light and the panel lines go over it seems steeper.
    galaxy-0210.jpg

    here is a stripped ver to give a better idea of the curvature.
    galaxy-0211.jpg
    Post edited by MadKoiFish on
    P5ych0p4thLizzy777Billynom8
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  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9714 Posts: 5,302Member
    Targeting the neck frontage now where I lost the sharpness of the edge and made the neck too wide looking, but retain the base curvature and root flare.
    galaxy-0213.jpg
    galaxy-0214.jpg
    oops forgot to post this a while back. Anyhow thinking I should be collapsing the saucer soon so I can work out the secondary to saucer connections. EXP that upper area.
    Billynom8lennier1FreakLizzy777
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  • D-JotaD-Jota390 Posts: 47Member
    A lot of love for the Galaxy class kicking about the site at the moment.

    She's my favourite Trek ship so I'm absolutely digging your progress on this.

    Well done to the power 10! =)
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9714 Posts: 5,302Member
    Starting to map out the secondary and tertiary panels as well as some detail decals, latter being a extra bit of something. I toyed with replicating the pencil grids that were done or it was a wash that often divided the blue and green panels and misc grids on the ship. You can see them in the brds in the classic fly by and the often used under saucer shot of the neck. Issue with these is I only have on screen evidence of them and where they were. So I have decided to leave them off and must replicate the Generations scheme but in the older colors. I am still debating if I will stencil all the panels or go textures. Prior would be easier for what I have planned for this but it makes doing "dirt" much harder.

    galaxy-0219.jpg
    galaxy-0220.jpg

    The green I have had to fool with a bit to get it to contrast. I dunno how screen evidence made such a difference of it but in render those 2 shades are so similar if I grey scaled the renders they would vanish. Many of the tng era images I do have the ship is super glossy but it is lacking some decals so I am guessing it got a massive hit of dulcoat once the registries were finalized. Either case I have altered some of the surfacing on the green so it sticks out more in different angles to the blue. Heck even the blue I cannot match in render even if the swatch is applied in the material. As mentioned before maybe it is the hdri and if I used a light gizmo it would display closer to the swatches.

    Do have to say even if my early tng images are fuzzy small and full of jpg artifacts the generations paint job is really messy. So much tape and gloppy application. Guessing this was to avoid abrasion marks in handling or just from gotta get it done in less time than it needed. Do wonder what happened to the original MOLDS as the ship was mostly fiberglass and resin. though the days of a fresh casting and paintjob replication are gone now as you would never see it used for anything but some rich guys tv room.

    OH also still on the fence about that dark area behind the conference room. Be it painted on or a actual indent into the hull. I am guessing it is there for protection of the hull from whatever possible aft thrusters on the "escape pod" Cannot think of anything else but maybe it being some sort of odd glare coating for the conference room.
    Billynom8lennier1FreakxiaorobearLizzy777
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9714 Posts: 5,302Member
    D-Jota wrote: »
    A lot of love for the Galaxy class kicking about the site at the moment.

    She's my favourite Trek ship so I'm absolutely digging your progress on this.

    Well done to the power 10! =)

    Thanks, I got plans for this thing this summer.
    had plans since mid 2019 so it sorta just happened we are working at similar times. Lewis will likely beat me to the finish line by months as he is already doing windows and mapping as he goes. I am still undecided in which directions I will go with things as my plans might require me to cut details in as uvw does not always take to being "cut up" In a way his model is what made me decide on the Galaxy over doing the Sovereign instead. That and there is so much more for the ship such as internals and other "bits" of the ship.
    lennier1
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9714 Posts: 5,302Member
    edited March 2020 #1645
    Ok sorta looked for refs but decided after fudging it and watching eps that the general window is roughly a 1mX6m eg 3.2ftX20ft, at least for the large saucer ones. Having to skimp on a few here and there elsewhere on the ship. But I think the ones I have had to alter are smaller on the model anyhow.

    I really dunno wtf these windows would look out from given the structure needed for that yacht.

    galaxy-0223.jpg

    galaxy-0224.jpg
    Little lights are where screws were for removing the section for the filming mounts. Same for the upper saucer near the bridge. Figured both locations needed location lights for the bits that detach so meh lol.

    Oh also if anyone has anything higher rez of the cutaway poster that was released in a few variants I would appreciate if you point me to it. Largest I have found that is not s bad photo through glass is 1800wide. Hoping for a scanned tiled copy. Mostly want to include any details inside for bits and pieces as well as easter eggs for people to gawk at later on. Slowly gathering all the probert design work too. Maybe I should upload my resources someplace to show what I do and do not have. maybe I will do that tomorrow, merge in the folders and upload a gallery on imgur or something.
    Post edited by MadKoiFish on
    Billynom8BrandenbergFreaklewisnivenLizzy777
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  • FreakFreak1088 Posts: 4,361Member
    Very nice Dan.
    Maybe those windows are for the yacht maintenance bay or more likely a reception area for dignitaries coming off the yacht?

    If I remember correctly Probert idea behind the Yacht was to bring VIP guest, Ambassadors etc to the ship when the transporters could not work.
    So having a reception area would make sense.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9714 Posts: 5,302Member
    edited March 2020 #1647
    The space isnt that big. The windows though make for some tall ceilings like 15ft. It is a space about oh 15X whatever wide. I would expect some thick bulkheads for a docking location and some thick seals from whatever room the yacht docks to to other places in the ship. Hence those windows are a bit tight. I thought maybe they are open to the bay in which probert's painting from a few years ago would allow a embarking area that is fairly open all round.

    Kinda hard to explain without having the 3d space to look at. But yeah likely some lux lounge for the servicing of. Blues show a completely different space to that area. Likely I will do what Probert proposed with the disembarking pic.

    Enterprise-D-captains-yacht-art.jpg
    could swear I saw a wider version of this with that guy on the right having more of his body in frame.

    Oh yeah I decided while i waited for something to cut those windows out and add the room.

    galaxy-0226.jpg
    also older render with shanghaibund as HDRI

    galaxy-0225.jpg
    Post edited by MadKoiFish on
    ashleytingerlewisnivenWarp Propulsion LaboratoryBillynom8Lizzy777Freak
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  • lennier1lennier1913 Posts: 1,280Member
    Those windows have always been a funny thing. Andrew Probert intended them to be a large unlit recreation room so crewmembers could stargaze without any light pollution, but the team later treated that section as the auxiliary deflector that takes over once the saucer is separated (like that nose cut-out on the Intrepid or those two cylinders on the Miranda).
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9714 Posts: 5,302Member
    edited March 2020 #1649
    I think your referring to the large square windows further up the saucer that in most refs or diagrams are listed as aux deflector.
    https://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/schematics/mondor-screen2.jpg

    and if it was referring to the windows I am, that compounds the issues even more as deflector machinery would take up far more room than a pressure seal bulkhead next to a docking frame and related workings.

    It is like those cluster of skylight looking things on the saucer backside. To have the hull wall of the undercut leaves those maybe a 10ft space under them. Same for the lifeboats below that as well. Very tight if there is room to even have those posts there and still retain a decently thick hull wall.
    https://forgottentrek.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Enterprise-D-600x400.jpg

    image of the interior I was able to apply to this the inner wall with the green bit(yacht) is the inner wall for the socket the yacht fits into. So my room depth is pushing things if this is suppose to be a separate "space"
    galaxy-0227.png
    Post edited by MadKoiFish on
    Lizzy777Billynom8Freak
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  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9714 Posts: 5,302Member
    For no known reason I added some girders and frame work for that "room" Kinda neat how the light materials in v-ray compare to mental ray.
    galaxy-0228.jpg

    galaxy-0229.png
    Lizzy777Billynom8Freak
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish9714 Posts: 5,302Member
    Panel cuts based on the generations repaint. Some turned edges making for errors but those have to wait as another BUG in max 2019 means turning edges just quits working and req a restart of the software to allow me to edit the hidden edges. And well max has always been super stupid when it comes to automatic edge turning (always chooses the worst of the triangulations possible)
    galaxy-0230.jpg
    I really do hate how the glass makes the 12" jambs look like they are only a few inches thick.
    galaxy-0231.jpg
    The green sorta makes me ill but it is what was on the ship in the early seasons (1~3) before the smaller uglier model superseded most of the shots and got a more overall gray panel look. Again all I have are bad refs for that ship and nothing of it after it was trashed up and recovered. Though I hated that model it might provide some insights to the panels and treatment.
    Lizzy777Billynom8FreakRekkert
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