3DLearning Blender

Gestalt

Edit (2015-01-11):
Adding an updated image. Model progress is ongoing.
Constitution_Refit_810_001.png
End Edit

I've been using 3D Studio since my computer ran on coal but I've decided to take a crack at modeling in Blender.

I don't think I'll ever become a proponent of the UI. The absolute dependence on keyboard input is quite jarring compared to my comfortable quad menu. I'm starting to make some headway, though.



Renders are being kept quite rough for the moment. I don't want to get too distracted by minutia at this stage. I'm hoping to get the whole thing roughed in before I do a deep dive on details and then texturing with Cycles.

C&C welcome, though at this stage there really isn't much on which to comment.

The subject matter needs no introduction. If it isn't obvious with this first post, it will become evident very soon.

evil_genius_180

The movie era bridge module looks good.

I gave Blender a serious go a few years ago, but I could never get comfortable with it. However, it certainly is great software in the right hands. I agree about the UI, it's funky.

McC

Blender doesn't conform to the typical interface conventions of other 3D apps, but once you take the time to understand how it's arranged, it's actually super-fast and becomes very intuitive. At this point, I consider the "standard" UI kind of suboptimal compared to Blender's.

Looking good so far! If you're rendering Cycles, it looks like you need to up your sample count. Check out the Tutorials link in my sig if you're looking for some Blender-specific ship modeling tips!

evil_genius_180

There's no such thing as a "standard" UI, every program has something different. My biggest issue with Blender's UI was remembering which icon was for which category. (I always hated the icons in my old software also) Plus, there are unintuitive things about Blender's interface, like having materials and UV mapping in a completely different place from adding textures. That makes no sense to me.

Having said that, I have considered giving Blender another go. After all, it never hurts to know more than one program. Plus, it's cross-platform, which is more than I can say for Lightwave.

McC

evil_genius_180 wrote: »

There's no such thing as a "standard" UI, every program has something different.

Ehhhhh, to some extent, but there are also conventions even in hotkeys that tend to be fairly standard (LW, Max, and Maya all had the same fundamental hotkeys for move, rotate, and scale, as I recall).

My biggest issue with Blender's UI was remembering which icon was for which category. (I always hated the icons in my old software also)

I think this may be a reaction to older versions of Blender (and we've discussed that elsewhere). Blender post-2.5 is an almost completely different program compared to pre-2.5, UI included. It's currently on version 2.7.

Plus, there are unintuitive things about Blender's interface, like having materials and UV mapping in a completely different place from adding textures. That makes no sense to me.

UV and materials separate from one another is pretty standard; material editing and UVing are completely different processes with their own needs that aren't really related. As to the adding textures bit, I'm not sure what you're referring to? This may be another pre-2.5 artifact. Anywhere you can edit a Material, you can add a texture, be it in the Material panel or in the Node Editor (which is where "real" Material editing happens), or even in the UV/Image Editor.

Having said that, I have considered giving Blender another go. After all, it never hurts to know more than one program. Plus, it's cross-platform, which is more than I can say for Lightwave.

That's so tragic to me; LW used to be cross-platform, from what I recall (though, bear in mind, this was back in v6-7 days). If they dropped support for it, bad on them!

Blender's cross-platform nature has actually been tremendously useful to me, especially since upgrading to a powerhouse of a laptop (on which I run Linux). I can do Blender stuff on my desktop or my laptop now, as needed, which potentially means I can have just Photoshop open my (Windows) desktop and have Blender running on my laptop, without needing to suck up the RAM on a single machine to run both.

evil_genius_180

All of my experiences in Blender are from 2.49b. I haven't tried the program for much of anything since 2010.

I will say that the Blender way of doing things is a lot more similar to Lightwave than it was to TrueSpace, so I think I'd have a better grasp on the software now.

McC wrote: »

That's so tragic to me; LW used to be cross-platform, from what I recall (though, bear in mind, this was back in v6-7 days). If they dropped support for it, bad on them!

It is if you're running Windows or a Mac. However, it's not as cross platform as Blender, which will work on damn near any desktop OS. Newtek was working on a Linux product several years ago, but they abandoned that. I can get LW 10 working in Linux with WINE, but I can't get the hardware lock working. Without that, you get a 30-day trial and then it won't work. This is important to me because, if Windows 9 isn't a vast improvement over Windows 8, I'm going to seriously consider completely switching over to Linux and Blender is a program that will help me get there.

McC

evil_genius_180 wrote: »

All of my experiences in Blender are from 2.49b. I haven't tried the program for much of anything since 2010.

Well, stop poo-pooing it until you try its revamped version, then.

I will say that the Blender way of doing things is a lot more similar to Lightwave than it was to TrueSpace, so I think I'd have a better grasp on the software now.

Yeah, that was a big attractor for me with the revamp post-2.5. I cut my teeth on Inspire and LightWave, so the superficial similarities it had to LightWave (after my meandering trip through Maya, Max, then back to Maya for work) was a welcome breath of fresh air.

It is if you're running Windows or a Mac. However, it's not as cross platform as Blender, which will work on damn near any desktop OS.

Oh, maybe it's Win/Mac I was thinking of, rather than Win/Mac/Linux. Probably the case.

That said, viva la open source!

Newtek was working on a Linux product several years ago, but they abandoned that. I can get LW 10 working in Linux with WINE, but I can't get the hardware lock working. Without that, you get a 30-day trial and then it won't work. This is important to me because, if Windows 9 isn't a vast improvement over Windows 8, I'm going to seriously consider completely switching over to Linux and Blender is a program that will help me get there.

At this point, about the only thing keeping me on Windows at all is the Adobe suite of software (Specifically, Photoshop and After Effects) and gaming. I can probably do most of what I do in Photoshop in GIMP, so that's just me being a crumbum about learning GIMP more thoroughly. After Effects is tougher; Linux doesn't (yet) have a good NLE+compositor. Blender is actually the closest it comes, with its ridiculously powerful (and scriptable!) compositing tools, but it lacks the NLE functionality that AFX provides.

Uh, we should probably take this elsewhere rather than crowding up Gestalt's thread.

evil_genius_180

McC wrote: »

Well, stop poo-pooing it until you try its revamped version, then.

I'm not poo-pooing, I'm working on a film. Once I get done with the the animations I need to get done, I'll have some time (I think.) Meanwhile, I think I'm going to stop hijacking this person's thread.

Tallguy

Hey! You got further on a TMP bridge than I ever did! Nice job!

spacefighter

as you are learning blender i am happy to advise on what i know of animation, lighting and rendering with it. i don't model with blender but i use it a fair bit so once you have got the modelling done i can suggest how to do the rendering and any animation you want, plus i know a little about various camera and other types of effects. i would suggest using internal not cycles, it's much faster and when things for a beginner internal will usually give better results(cycles does some more fancy stuff but it's really slow and doesn't do things that can't also be achieved with some compositor tricks.). internal wouldn't be giving you those "grainy fireflies". well done on modelling so far, looks like you've kept the geometry nice and neat.

Gestalt

Thank you all for your feedback and healthy debate. I know 3D platform of choice can often be a point of vigorous contention. While I am not a fan of the interface, I have to admit that Blender is a remarkably capable platform with an amazing constellation of features.

If nothing else comes of my Blender experiments, I think it is helping me to break out of my ingrained modeling habits. Having started with one of the earliest generations of 3DS, I think my skills have been stuck in a time capsule. Branching out into Blender just might be what I need to cast off my old preconceptions about how to go about modeling.

The latest progress images is embedded below. I'm sticking with Cycles for the rendering but I've turned up the sampling and enabled square samples to make the images a bit more acceptable. I would switch to the internal engine but I want to maintain consistency with this project. I had a nasty run-in with my last project where I switched the render engine at the 11th hour to achieve a desired effect and it played havoc with the rest of my materials. It is almost certainly unnecessary but I'm willing to brave the longer render times and the occasional field of fireflies that are sure accompany

Bridge-Rough-Revision29.png

I'm happy with how the back half has progressed. Less so with the dome. I'm used to the more procedural modeling nature of Max where I could lathe a spline for x steps over y degrees and adjust later for improved resolution as needed by tweaking the stack. The Blender spin tool and modeling methodology in general definitely require a new mindset!

evil_genius_180

That looks really good.

No matter what you are coming from or switching to, changing 3D software is always an uphill battle to break old habits.

McC

Excellent update!

I'm noticing some pretty severe segmentation on the front of the dome; not sure what your target poly fidelity level is, but it might merit revisiting. The back looks excellent, though I'd recommend giving all of your hard edges a very slight bevel to round them out a bit. No "real" edge is 100% sharp like a standard 3D edge...except maybe a knife.

Gestalt

To date the dome is my least favorite element. Definitely too segmented and the details are awful (I'll keep my wireframe shame private but take my word for it, it is a mess). I'll be rebuilding it before texturing but it will work for now.

I will also be beveling the hard edges, too! It definitely helps to make the model more believable.

Bridge-Rough-Fore-Revision41.png
Bridge-Rough-Aft-Revision41.png

Chris2005

Very nice.

I'm a 3ds max person, the UI is the one I've found the easiest to follow and find what you need.

evil_genius_180

It's looking good. That bridge is definitely a pill to model.

Tralfaz

^^^^
That and the rear shuttle bay contours.

Your wire frames may not be attractive, but your renders sure are. Great work so far.

evil_genius_180

Tralfaz wrote: »

^^^^
That and the rear shuttle bay contours.

I was about ready to throw the PC out the window when I did that part.

McC

Segmentation looks much improved now! Nice job!

Gestalt

Thanks everyone!

Gotta love subdivision modeling. No matter what platform you are using, it really makes short work of some very complex surfaces!

The back portion of the upper bridge was an interesting adventure. I ended up modeling it twice. The first time I ended up with a bizarre, clunky jumble of a mesh but I was able to bend a new, fresh mesh around it using vertex snapping. This was before I knew how to make use of the subsurf and edge split modifiers or supporting geometry.

As I get more comfortable with the Blender modeling tools, I'm becoming quite certain that this I will ultimately be redoing the entire mesh again from scratch once this iteration is completed :-)

The VIP deck went a LOT easier than I had anticipated. I've modeled this before in Max and it's given me fits. I spent way too much time on this structure, never quite being happy with the results. The edge loop tools in Blender are quite powerful. I actually spent more time chasing down a few loose vertices that had slipped away from the mid-line than in actually sculpting the mesh.

Next up, windows and surface details. This is the part that I hate doing in Max so I'll be curious to see how it turns out here.

Bridge-Rough-Fore-Revision-049.png
Bridge-Rough-Aft-Revision-049.png

evil_genius_180

Everything looks good, nice and smooth.

Gestalt wrote: »

Gotta love subdivision modeling. No matter what platform you are using, it really makes short work of some very complex surfaces!

Yes, this is very true. I didn't have good subdivision tools in my old software, but I freaking love the ones Lightwave has. I use it all the time. I used it for a lot of parts on my refit, including these parts. It makes quick work of the subtle curves and nuances this ship has.

Gestalt

OK, windows suck no matter the platform. I spent the last several hours futzing with the largest windows on the ship. I can only imagine what horrors await with the smaller windows to come!

Anyway, great experience seeing how Blender handles booleans, subsurf meshes, and even shrinkwrap. Tons more to learn but building steam.

The depth of the windows at the moment is simply laziness on my part. They will be much more shallow when completed. I just did a sloppy extrude so I could properly bevel the edges. And by properly I mean, screw it up several times and end up rebuilding every face by hand after the fact

Bridge-Rough-Aft-Revision-058.png

McC

Have a look at Knife Project, too. Booleans and that are how I do my windows.

Looking good!

evil_genius_180

The windows look good.

I use the Lightwave equivalent of that knife thing, it's called Solid Drill stencil. I find it gives me less fits than Booleans, but it can still be a pill at times.

Gestalt

Knife project is indeed a time saver! Far faster than the shrinkwrap tool!

Now to figure out how best to skew the window templates so that they turn out as proper circles and not odd ovals smeared across the hull contours. I was half way through correcting the geometries around the middle pair of windows when I realized how distorted they had become. I'd already angled them in one axis to fit the vertical profile. It should really only be a few tweaks to get them aligned on the other axis too.

Bridge-Rough-Port-Revision-062.png

McC

Knife Project works from the current view, generally. If you're using a cylinder as a projector, you can select the end cap ngon and snap the view to it (Shift Num7 usually does it, though it might be Shift Num3 or Shift Num1, depending). Then you can project along a perfect object normal.

For more numerous windows, I'd recommend using Booleans and dealing with the cleanup time, though.

stephan_ska

I "discoverd" the knife project thingy yesterday too ^^ and it's much faster (easier) than the shrinkwrapt tool for me.
But as McC suggested i will give the boolean another try next time .. but also "shift+Mum7" sounds good to me too.

Great job by the way. Love to see some more progress

Gestalt

McC,

Thank you for the link. I've only started gleaning tips from your site and it's already shaving hours off my work!

VIP Deck windows recut and detailed. The extrusions are pretty lazy right now. I plan to circle back trough and re-extrude them to ensure that they are all uniform and tangential from the hull.

Bridge-Rough-Port-Revision-068.png

Just a little greebling for the front and I'll be ready to move on to the next component.

Gestalt

Not much accomplished during the work week but today was pretty productive. I've spent the day building a new saucer and starting on the details. I'm pretty happy with it so far.

Saucer-Fore-098.png

Saucer-Aft-098.png

Tomorrow I start on the saucer rim windows.

evil_genius_180

Nice work. Not to get nitpicky, but I think one of your little crew hatches on the back is going to be covered up by the impulse engine.

McC

Continues to look great!