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AnimationBSG Apocalypse: Part 1 Complete(wip)

RandalRRandalR0 Posts: 0Member
edited June 2014 in Work in Progress #1
Well, How does the Viper Cockpit Dash look?

Improved I think.

Am thinking of ending this here and call it part 1.

Still needs some touch ups here and there.

Battlestar Apocalypse: The Battle Begins

[video=vimeo;96849439]



The final shot (BS Multi-Explos) had base ship material issues and did not understand why.
Same setup I used in most other scenes. That Shot took 3 days and final render
was over 25 hours. It had to be rendered from Beg to End to get Particles to work right on
the broken Mesh. So, I learned the hard way that I could not start over at any frame.

Regards,
106053.png
Post edited by RandalR on

Posts

  • spacefighterspacefighter2 Posts: 0Member
    seems to be taking a while to render. don't know about with c4d but in blender i can turn off "raytracing" and "subsurface scattering"under "shading" on the "render" tab of the "properties" window and that really speeds rendering up (by a factor of 5 often) without any significant loss of image realism(all my animations and renders are done with those 2 turned off). you may also want to do some searches for "speed up rendering in c4d" it might show you something you can do to cut render time, perhaps by removing some unnecessary advanced feature in the render engine which is not being used in your animations.

    onto the video:
    title looks good but could use a bit of a clearer difference between the colour of your apocalypse text and the background. just try texturing it with a photo of rusting metal, having the music cut in as it appears is a nice touch. also edit the flames around this title so they are more flame like and less like flame coloured sheets floating in mod air, animating fire well is really hard so try using some stock footage or flames cut out of a real piece of film. all your explosions seem refined, the glows around them and the smoke are pretty convincing now. the scene at 02:10 where the damaged viper turns (i'm a fan of the composition and concept of this clip)really could use a better effect for the flame coming from it's damaged engine though. "bullet time" scene is another nice clip, but the motion in it doesn't seems very smooth, as if it were rendered on a very low frame rate. viper cockpit shot is better but the canopy frame and metal parts NEED a basic seamless metal texture slapped on, the actual display elements in this shot are ideal. the blue explosions in the distance are too sharp edged into star shapes, they should be more fuzzy, and the raider engine glows are still not quite white enough. the blue spherical shell coming off the damaged engine is very bad, it's too smooth and cleanly shaped, it might be better just to use a really bright lens flare(10 times the intensity of the current one, larger size and whiter) when the engine gets shot then switch to a normal explosion on the site with the hull around it damaged(maybe some gaping hulls with a few unlucky engineers being flung out into the vacuum through them). the small explosions against the battlestar's hull look fantastic. all in all the video is great, each time i watch a new version of this video i have to look harder to spot things that look wrong. soon i won't be able to spot any errors at all! great work!
  • RandalRRandalR0 Posts: 0Member
    well, you are keeping me busy....:D

    There are settings in the Render Module that may apply as you suggest. Have never fooled with them.
    Have done most else on that issue with Volume Tracer.

    The Flaming Text...Have tried mixing the Textures in layer format with some grunge/rusty like textures.
    (I do not have a whole lot of stocked textures)
    The Text actually has 3 layers on the Caps,1 on the the face ring and 1 on the Extrusion (Depth)
    The Caps (Face)A noise animation that simulates like a cloud/fire.

    Each time I have tried solid textures and mix them up in the Layer Channel, it never looks good to me.Even have an emitter to simulate strobe light, hard to tell, but its there :)

    The Flames, well, that is a pot shot everytime. Have to render it out to see how it actually looks :D
    Have Doubled Particle output on all emitters, took out the steam, (was not rendering well anyway-Light positions)
    And have to wait and see how it will look.

    Would like to hear more comments from others. WEill try and work on fixing a few things I am not satisfied with.
    Means, I got re work, re render, re do what has been done already :D
    I may even add/change some scenes... taking a few days off of working on it atm.

    Thanks-Regards,

    Randal R.
  • spacefighterspacefighter2 Posts: 0Member
    http://www.cgtextures.com/ free textures (though one has to register with an email address) with a download limit of several per day. also try google. between those two sources you should find a rust texture, the free photoediting software GIMP can be used to make textures seamless so they can be tiled more easily. all you need to do is create/download/a mixture of both a rusty/grungy metal picture make it seamless and stick it on the text with the most basic of mapping, you don't need any layer effects there or any material effects beyond adding a relevant spec map so it isn't as shiny where the dirt is.

    i don't know how you are with video editing software but if you find a video of flames on youtube you could download it and then use some software to cut out everything but the flames (like greenscreening but without the green screen) then put the flame video, with it's alpha channel set to transparent on everything but the flames themselves, on top of your text video.
  • RandalRRandalR0 Posts: 0Member
    Here is an update of re done clips.


    And an example of what I have rendered in C4d, and what ends up after Sony MP4 render and then Upload compression.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PytEuZ4pCEE

    Still could not get a a good result using an outside texture on the Text Caps.
    This is a particle effect I want to keep. Rdrs clip changed the Luminosity and Glow of the Rnds.
    The size of the flares and also the flare parameters.

    Added attachment: C4d Render of Cylon Head. To compare with same footage in clip.
    2nd Attachment. The Material Editor where I can change or Animate anything in the layers of the Caps.
    In this one I have 2 different textures I was experimenting with.

    @ Spacefighter.
    Do not want to use any footage- Particle Animation. I have a bunch for AE of flame footage.
    Partly when ever I have done it, it looks even more fake somehow :)
    I think the Texture material does not contrast well with the Particle Flames.The text needs to remain dark to see it.Tried several Grungy/Rusty textures I have, it just did not look right when I try them.
    Btw I use Sony Vegas Pro 8- it is old and it does not like .PNG files tbh.
    It serves its purpose.
    Oh yeh, one more, thing, I am redoing the one scene where you suggested I refocus... Scene with Action Stations-Set Cond 1.....both clips will now be one.:D


    Thnks,

    Randal R,
    106013.jpg106014.jpg
  • spacefighterspacefighter2 Posts: 0Member
    the flames in the first clip of that video are better than those in the second, neither is perfect but both better than the last attempt. as for your texture on the text itself i can see what you are doing with procedural textures to make that animated smoke but i think it is the wrong choice. search google for "rusting metal texture" or "grunge metal texture" and pick a good one, use GIMP to make it seamless and stick it straight on the text an example done with blender is shown below.
    Attachment not found.
    that was done with one texture which i found lying around on my harddrive, i turned on bump mapping at a very low level and made sure that the rusted areas have a lower specularity than the rest of the metal. it was done in blender but i guess similar principles work in c4d. combined with physically built indented lines where you have the white lines now that could give an awesome effect.
  • SaquistSaquist1 Posts: 0Member
    RandalR wrote: »
    Here is an update of re done clips.


    And an example of what I have rendered in C4d, and what ends up after Sony MP4 render and then Upload compression.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PytEuZ4pCEE

    Still could not get a a good result using an outside texture on the Text Caps.
    This is a particle effect I want to keep. Rdrs clip changed the Luminosity and Glow of the Rnds.
    The size of the flares and also the flare parameters.

    Added attachment: C4d Render of Cylon Head. To compare with same footage in clip.
    2nd Attachment. The Material Editor where I can change or Animate anything in the layers of the Caps.
    In this one I have 2 different textures I was experimenting with.

    @ Spacefighter.
    Do not want to use any footage- Particle Animation. I have a bunch for AE of flame footage.
    Partly when ever I have done it, it looks even more fake somehow :)
    I think the Texture material does not contrast well with the Particle Flames.The text needs to remain dark to see it.Tried several Grungy/Rusty textures I have, it just did not look right when I try them.
    Btw I use Sony Vegas Pro 8- it is old and it does not like .PNG files tbh.
    It serves its purpose.
    Oh yeh, one more, thing, I am redoing the one scene where you suggested I refocus... Scene with Action Stations-Set Cond 1.....both clips will now be one.:D


    Thnks,

    Randal R,

    That was a dramatic difference from the first draft of the Apocalypse Title reveal., Very menacing and fits the mood of music in an odd way. Very good idea pullingout of the eye of a cylon. You have a good flare for the dramatic.
  • RandalRRandalR0 Posts: 0Member
    oh boy, another reply, very much appreciated. Now some more updated footage.

    Update Clips to be included in next Battlestar Apocalypse video release.

    Vipers clip re shot to include refocus on Battlestar, was 2 clips is now one.
    Fixed the Viper cockpit structure canopy.Removed Light source causing fog reflection in canopy on right side.
    Re lit Sequence due to upload compression and Sony MP4 rendering.


    Still really sucks that I get a good render in C4d and it gets ruined by SonyMP4 render and upload compression.


    Also am working on first scene of Pt 2. and man , for me it has a lot going on in first shot.
  • spacefighterspacefighter2 Posts: 0Member
    that's great, looks like you have got a texture onto the galactica's hull!! the first clip with the two waves of vipers is nice, but i'm not sure which one it will replace it might be better to add it in rather than replace clip with it. cockpit view is improved but the main criticism i have of it is still there, the metal parts(including the canopy frame and surround) are not textured, they are currently just plain grey. the clip moving along the side if the hull is really cool but might be better if some of the flashes from off camera explosions were brighter. all in all very little wrong with it, great work.
  • RandalRRandalR0 Posts: 0Member
    that's great, looks like you have got a texture onto the galactica's hull!! the first clip with the two waves of vipers is nice, but i'm not sure which one it will replace it might be better to add it in rather than replace clip with it. cockpit view is improved but the main criticism i have of it is still there, the metal parts(including the canopy frame and surround) are not textured, they are currently just plain grey. the clip moving along the side if the hull is really cool but might be better if some of the flashes from off camera explosions were brighter. all in all very little wrong with it, great work.

    Oh man, what an AHA moment, I completely forgot that part of texturing it.,.. DOH!!!!
    I did the Dash and completely forgot that. Corrected the Selection Tags that were on the Polygons of the Canopy...
    But did not add a texture....:argh:
    Well, since I got to redo it again, may as well, brighten the Flashes.

    thnx

    EDIT:

    Just did a screen shot of new material. See attachment
    will darken it a lil more.2nd Image is tweaking some.
    3rd Added.
    106042.jpg106043.jpg106044.jpg
  • RandalRRandalR0 Posts: 0Member
    Update Clips #2

    Improved the Raider Thrusters in both clips.Added another Light with flare on thrstrs.Re-do of the Flame Text Cap material and tried to make it as fluid as I can with TP Pyros.Tried to remove much of the Gold look.Cockpit Canopy textured as best I think I can get it. Also scaled up and brightened the flashes slightly (20%). Relit Battlestar Broadside with its own light.Cant hardly tell with upload.
    and many other lil tweaks.

    106047.png
  • spacefighterspacefighter2 Posts: 0Member
    in previous post i noticed your use of a texture in the canopy struts, it really helps. now try doing the same(same texture image even, it's the right sort of thing) but lighter to the light grey metal bits lower down in the cockpit. not sure if this so the same video as in the other thread, your use of multiple threads is getting a little confusing.
  • RandalRRandalR0 Posts: 0Member
    Are you saying to add texture to the rest of cockpit?
    That may be difficult to do. The grayish parts of Cockpit is part of the texture's with all the readouts. So would have to try and PS that into the texture. Or try and piecemeal it in...using selection tags.

    My apologies for the threads, this started as just some clips, then became Battlestar Action, then it became Battlestar Apocalypse.
    This is the final wip thread for this as Part 1. I get confused on long threads with many posts and often just start a new one.

    I try and make scenes quickly while I have the idea fresh in my mind.And it seems I have developed this pattern into how I make the short. Make a kind of full length draft, then go about fixing it LOL

    too impatient sometimes.
    thnks
  • RandalRRandalR0 Posts: 0Member
    Full Length Update Video..... Last Chance to comment on Pt 1.

    Have not yet watched it...:D

    [video=vimeo;97607889]
  • spacefighterspacefighter2 Posts: 0Member
    i can see 4 issues but otherwise it is perfect.
    the four issues are:

    1)the awful expanding blue sphere when the engine gets shot on the battlestar, maybe abandon this shot entirely because i suspect it will be VERY difficult to produce an "explosion" here that looks good.

    2)some issues with the title text(which are nearly solved, the fire is better now but not perfect, the metal texture is a bit wrong)

    3)the triangular patches visible on the red stripe of the viper's nose in the cockpit shots(and the lack of texture on the light grey parts of the cockpit structure)

    4)there is texture on the side of the battlestar's hull(which is great) but it doesn't seem like there is a texture on the top of the hull(some panels on there have been textured(a bit too many repeats on those texture tiles though) but the bit around the gun turrets looks to be flat plain surfaces without texturing).

    other than those four issues it is FLAWLESS!

    p.s. kind of funny to think that by now you must have made more minutes of galactica animations than there are minutes of cgi work in the new bsg series.
  • RandalRRandalR0 Posts: 0Member
    New UPdated Clips


    ah, I likes it too.... but, I admit I must not totally understand your stance on the text.

    Actually, the noise aspect of the texture I used, was still animated when I rendered, was not intending to have it animated.
    I also began slowly after frame 200 darken or fade, as if it were burning...
    I get it about using a material on the Caps, but as to what you are actually wanting it to look escapes me maybe.


    Some new updates for wip#2

    Corrected Viper Rounds clip 1
    Re lit scene and added New Raider Thruster/Lights/Flare
    Re render of Cockpit. -
    --Due to the nature of the animated textures and how applied,
    and that I no longer have the necessary files to edit, other than the actual animated texture
    that I made several years ago. I would have to PS every single frame for each channel of Luminance- Color- and poss. Alpha.That's over 300 frames of meticulous PS work.
    So, I turned off Luminance all together, tried re lighting it some to at least help the Color channel.

    Feedback is appreciated.



    Randal R.
  • spacefighterspacefighter2 Posts: 0Member
    for the text what i mean is stop using noise and procedural textures to try and synthesize the metal. just slap on a jpeg texture of some rusty metal and make sure it is not too dark in colour. if you know how, and if it is possible in c4d you might be able to do something called(in blender) a bump map. in c4d the bump map may have another name but what it does is allows the texture to alter the geometry slightly so you can make, for example, rusty areas bulge slightly above the rest of the metal and look rough by reflecting less of the light that hits those areas. look at the image i posted on one of your threads a while back to get the idea of what i mean. having the text darken(once the burn has begun) could be accomplished by lowering the diffuse and specular values of the material used on the text, once again c4d may have different terms for these.

    about the video, first shot is nice, seems clearer than before. darkening has improved the cockpit shot, if editing the material used is as difficult as you say it is then this is an adequate way of solving that problem. the darkening has also reduced, though not totally eliminated, the visibility of those annoying triangles on the nose. can't see any real problems in this latest clip, good work.
  • todaytoday0 Posts: 37Member
    I'm still slightly confused as to why you aren't using any of the basestar's texture maps. Surely reapplying a UV mapped texture can't be that hard?
  • RandalRRandalR0 Posts: 0Member
    You guys are making me work at this, it was supposed to be fun lol,,,,<<<< just teasing

    --the triangle patches are in the model, I cannot do anything about it.
    I had that same issue with the canopy struts., I put a plain solid material with some texture and I get the same
    triangles (albeit stretched)no matter what.Also other polygons and objects have issues with applying textures on the Viper.
    I cannot find any polys. points, edges for these triangles. they should not even exist as far as I can tell.
    And tbh I cannot even use Bodypaint, have tried to learn it and failed.


    -- The Base Star , I am using your materials.They are UV mapped. I had to play some trickery with the settings to get the Diffuse Channel to even work somewhat. If you have a solution, am all ears, as I am just an amateur mostly. There is some issue at play I am not aware of or cannot determine. The default import and/or default setting in Diffuse does not seem to be correct.
    I do not know to correct what the issue might be.Have played with the settings in Diffuse and these settings in Attachment are the best I could get in Render tests.
    See Attachment

    --- The Btlstr thrstr explosion, well, it was a first time experiment. I kind of like it, because I spent a lot of time on it...<chuckles>
    will have to think about that.


    Also, an update, Base Star Defenses Clip

    in order, current clip is first.
    2nd was a re-render correcting rnds, changing battlestar emitter direction and movements.Explosion positions
    but the lighting was not same and do not know why, did not touch the lights, but I got a different result.
    So, I did #3....
    Added A SS of Base Star Def from Sony to illustrate what I see before upload.
    See Attachment


    Also, I watched BSG the miniseries last night ( the Pilot movie) and discovered some things.
    --recorded a few audio tracks also
    --was not a big watcher of the new series, am more of the TOS preference. ( timing of life I spose)
    but I like the concepts of BSG. I aint even close to what they did....:(

    Also realized that these lil Raiders pack missiles in their bellies...!! will have to use that.
    was not even going to do missiles.Was thinking of using TOS raider as Missile Carriers and Bombers
    when the new Baseship(s) arrive in pt 2.

    Got a Basestar pic and the Title text that I can now look over from the Pilot.
    See Attachments

    I want to make a good video, and you guys are very helpful.
    But I have not played Star Wars The Old Republic in 2 months now.....and I'm a subscriber.
    Cant play while rendering.Too taxing on Gfx card.My attention is on this.

    I am still learning this, and always will be.And I understand, that I will probably never be able to make it Hollywood or Television.Let alone stand out cutting edge stuff. But I strive to make it best I can. I make it cuz I like it. I like doing it. I like learning it.And I bet some of you are the same way :).

    Thank You all.
    Randal R.

    .
    106063.jpg106064.jpg106065.png106066.jpg
  • todaytoday0 Posts: 37Member
    It looks like the texture map is correctly applied, but don't know Cinema4D well enough (or at all) to be sure of this, so I could be missing something. Either way, it's clearly not visible in your renders. I assume you imported the .lwo directly, in which case, do you think you might have an easier time converting from a different format? perhaps obj or 3ds?
  • spacefighterspacefighter2 Posts: 0Member
    i could point you to an excellent viper model(in blender format i'm afraid) but i think you are too far progressed to change the models you have used.
    it doesn't seem to be available on the download site(blendswap) anymore but if you really want it i can give you a copy via google drive.
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