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3DHeavy Cruiser (Trek or Stargate? What do u think?)

2

Posts

  • AshkaelAshkael0 Posts: 0Member
    Thank you Spacefighter for your help, that was a great hint, I managed to get really nice structures that way as you can see in the picture.
    I suppose you could find influence from a lot of universes in this mesh, since IA’m a really big scifi fan, especially when it comes to spaceships, but I still try to make something original. Anyway IA’m glad you guyA’s like it thus far, so hereA’s another rendering of the panneling progress and IA’m trying to figure out some nice window design. The oneA’s on the vertical middle section looks fine to me, but the others above that section kinda remind me of a holiday cruise ship or a passenger liner. Any ideas for more badass looking windows?

    cruiser20.jpg

    Hmm now that you mention it Major Diarrhia, I havenA’t seen them either, but found a lot of reference to those in the last couple of days. I guess the big space battles would have been to overloaded if they decided to animate all of those little guns. So far IA’ve only added a forward torpedo launcher, but have no ideas for the main weapons so far.
    105103.jpg
  • SaquistSaquist1 Posts: 0Member
    Ashkael wrote: »

    @saquist: Thank you, I already thought about that episode and watched it again! Thats one of my favourite DS9 episodes, I just really like space battle scenes and Sisko is just badass!

    Arguably the Best Two Parter the Franchise ever saw.
    -An incredible buildup,
    -Introduction of Trek's most underused character and (Trope)
    -One incredible Assault
    -Fantastic Defiant Fight
    -A tense an unresolved ending.

    That's how it's done.
    (Forgive me for pointing it out. (that introduction would not have happened if Rick Berman had his way. Amazingly The Studio wanted a Klingon Federation conflict.)
    You're welcome.

    They look like torpedoes, but I still can't get over them firing from what should be humongous guns. However, they do fire at a distinct angle, indicating they should be able to point off bore. Lastly, the pulses don't spin, like normal torpedoes, and they look very similar to the disruptor shots from the pistols in the melee scenes.

    .

    Good point.
    At that size and firepower the only appropriate target would be an enemy space station.
    That's a big specific.
  • AshkaelAshkael0 Posts: 0Member
    HereA’s a quick update, front view with forward torpedo launcher and nacelle update

    cruiser21.jpg
    105104.jpg
  • spacefighterspacefighter2 Posts: 0Member
    really good updates, i thought you would have had a more regular grid or baffle effect to your panels but what you have done looks pretty good. you still need to break up some other large flat areas, i would advise for all the ones behind the bridge area that are still big ugly flat expanses use small subtle panelling not something as bold as used on the bow area, this way it won't break up the overall shape too much. as for windows, make them small, you already have enough really. those on the bridge should probably be smaller those on the sides of the hull further back look quite cool but make sure they only go into an "outer layer" of corridors that can be sealed off should the windows take a hit. i see what you mean about those on top of the hull looking like they are from a cruise liner, in many ways they arr a bit unnecessary and could just be removed. if you need a point on the ship where a person can look directly upwards without use of a cctv camera type device then place a small observation dome in a turret. take a look at the dome on the ISS for some ideas.
  • Major DiarrhiaMajor Diarrhia331 Posts: 0Member
    Ashkael wrote: »
    cruiser20.jpg

    Hmm now that you mention it Major Diarrhia, I havenA’t seen them either, but found a lot of reference to those in the last couple of days. I guess the big space battles would have been to overloaded if they decided to animate all of those little guns. So far IA’ve only added a forward torpedo launcher, but have no ideas for the main weapons so far.

    The windows in the narrowest part of the neck seems kind of like stacking weak points in a weak point. Except, it looks good, and there is no reason the windows can't be super windows and just as strong, or stronger than the rest of the hull. You could make the windows geometry, with a two meter inset, with textures inside which look like rooms. That would make for some striking closeups.

    The way the secondary weapons are created, they don't even need animation in the shows, they're usually just a blister of some sort. It comes down to a lack of communication between the authors, directors, and art directors; they are all telling different stories. The ship, and first dibs on animation is up to you, so you have more options in how it is presented.
    Saquist wrote: »
    Good point.
    At that size and firepower the only appropriate target would be an enemy space station.
    That's a big specific.
    I like thinking of them as siege guns too. The way Trek works though, they probably work well against ships to, which is fine.
  • StarshipStarship464 São Paulo - BrasilPosts: 1,976Member
    Interesting ship!
    With the right colors, could surelly pass as a Klingon ship. :)
  • ZeropointZeropoint0 Posts: 0Member
    Having spent some time on a US Navy warship, I have to say that I find the presence of all those windows to be puzzling. The Carl Vinson is virtually windowless--you've got windows on the bridge, because it's for piloting the ship in restricted water where there are things to run into, and you have windows overlooking the flight deck, and a few of the high-ranking officers get portholes.

    Who are these windows FOR, and why do the people creating a vessel meant to go into combat care so much about giving them a view of nothing?
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1804256 Posts: 11,034Member
    Zeropoint wrote: »
    Having spent some time on a US Navy warship, I have to say that I find the presence of all those windows to be puzzling. The Carl Vinson is virtually windowless--you've got windows on the bridge, because it's for piloting the ship in restricted water where there are things to run into, and you have windows overlooking the flight deck, and a few of the high-ranking officers get portholes.

    Who are these windows FOR, and why do the people creating a vessel meant to go into combat care so much about giving them a view of nothing?

    I've made that very same point so many times in the past. :lol:
  • AshkaelAshkael0 Posts: 0Member
    Hehe, yeah I see your point, I would prefer not to see the incoming photon torpedo before my room gets a spontaneous relocation
  • spacefighterspacefighter2 Posts: 0Member
    the real reason everyone puts windows on starships is too establish a scale, the trick is too find something else to use which would not be such a pointless vulnerability to hull integrity. there is certainly a practical use for windows incase electronic camera systems fail but even then the windows only need to be in a few maneuvering compartments which would be separated from the rest of the hull by bulkheads almost as strong as those used on the outside of the hull, there may also be use, or just aesthetic reasons, for a viewing gallery from which space can be viewed but once again this would be in a specially built compartment such that if it is compromised the rest of the ship stays in working order.
  • AresiusAresius359 Posts: 4,171Member
    Aye.
    Interstingly, every scifi deals with the idea that windows (made from glass) by creating a more durable form. TansAl in Trek (transparent Aluminum), Transparisteel in Star Wars (obviously a transparent metal alloy), and so forth. Yet it's always the "glass" (in any form) that breaks first...
  • AshkaelAshkael0 Posts: 0Member
    Thank you for all the comments! I guess if we start to argue about the vulnerability and necessity of things like windows, pipes, tanks,... there would be absolutely no reason for greebling our ships, since the only think IA’d put on the outer hull would be armor plates, necessary cooling panels, weapons and so forth. :)
    Anyway here is a little update, IA’m starting to figure out the greeble thing and getting more fluid in creating them, but IA’m quite busy with studying right now, so updates will be slow!

    cruiser24.jpg
    105219.jpg
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1804256 Posts: 11,034Member
    I'm loving those greebles. :thumb:
    Ashkael wrote: »
    Thank you for all the comments! I guess if we start to argue about the vulnerability and necessity of things like windows, pipes, tanks,... there would be absolutely no reason for greebling our ships, since the only think IA’d put on the outer hull would be armor plates, necessary cooling panels, weapons and so forth. :)

    So very true.
  • MaxxRushMaxxRush180 Posts: 168Member
    Ashkael wrote: »
    Thank you for all the comments! I guess if we start to argue about the vulnerability and necessity of things like windows, pipes, tanks,... there would be absolutely no reason for greebling our ships, since the only think IA’d put on the outer hull would be armor plates, necessary cooling panels, weapons and so forth. :)
    Anyway here is a little update, IA’m starting to figure out the greeble thing and getting more fluid in creating them, but IA’m quite busy with studying right now, so updates will be slow!

    cruiser24.jpg

    Hence one reason why I like doing Honorverse ships - no greebling except what absolutely *has* to be there. Everything else is buried in the armor.

    That said, this is a nice design, although IMO it doesn't feel "Trek" to me - not that I'm an expert. My Trek experience is TOS and TNG, as well as the movies (which stopped after I finally saw the reboot - anyone want to buy a slightly used copy? Only watched once...)
  • ZeropointZeropoint0 Posts: 0Member
    I guess if we start to argue about the vulnerability and necessity of things like windows, pipes, tanks,... there would be absolutely no reason for greebling our ships, since the only think IA’d put on the outer hull would be armor plates, necessary cooling panels, weapons and so forth.

    You mean, like real-world warships? :D
  • MaxxRushMaxxRush180 Posts: 168Member
    Zeropoint wrote: »
    You mean, like real-world warships? :D

    Shhhhh... this is science fiction, which has no relation at all to The Real World™
  • dbrasco2069dbrasco20690 Posts: 2Member
    Ashkael wrote: »
    Thank you Spacefighter for your help, that was a great hint, I managed to get really nice structures that way as you can see in the picture.
    I suppose you could find influence from a lot of universes in this mesh, since IA’m a really big scifi fan, especially when it comes to spaceships, but I still try to make something original. Anyway IA’m glad you guyA’s like it thus far, so hereA’s another rendering of the panneling progress and IA’m trying to figure out some nice window design. The oneA’s on the vertical middle section looks fine to me, but the others above that section kinda remind me of a holiday cruise ship or a passenger liner. Any ideas for more badass looking windows?

    cruiser20.jpg

    Hmm now that you mention it Major Diarrhia, I havenA’t seen them either, but found a lot of reference to those in the last couple of days. I guess the big space battles would have been to overloaded if they decided to animate all of those little guns. So far IA’ve only added a forward torpedo launcher, but have no ideas for the main weapons so far.

    Nice design, but you need to bevel your edges...that will go a long way to giving it a bigger sense of scale
  • spacefighterspacefighter2 Posts: 0Member
    just to mention this
    with having tough material for windows one crucial thing to consider is that if the windows were of a tougher material than the rest of the hull then the whole ship would be made of that material, as that is not the case we must assume windows to be weak so ought to be kept small.

    anyway, that latest picture looks really good. nice designs for the reactor tops, armour plate, pipework and radiator greebles. the "bridge like lump" thing on top is a nice design, perhaps to use as a sensor platform and the bits projecting from it's rear give a nice "spiky" appearance to it. the engine bells at the very back look pretty bad but i'm guessing they will look far better with some details applied.
  • AshkaelAshkael0 Posts: 0Member
    @ spacefighter: Thanks man! Yeah IA’m still fooling around with the main engine and donA’t really like the wings yet. Still waiting for an epiphany! ;-)
    @dbrasco2069: Do u really mean I should chamfer all outer edges?
  • SaquistSaquist1 Posts: 0Member
    Zeropoint wrote: »
    Having spent some time on a US Navy warship, I have to say that I find the presence of all those windows to be puzzling. The Carl Vinson is virtually windowless--you've got windows on the bridge, because it's for piloting the ship in restricted water where there are things to run into, and you have windows overlooking the flight deck, and a few of the high-ranking officers get portholes.

    Who are these windows FOR, and why do the people creating a vessel meant to go into combat care so much about giving them a view of nothing?
    I've made that very same point so many times in the past. :lol:
    The windows in the narrowest part of the neck seems kind of like stacking weak points in a weak point. Except, it looks good, and there is no reason the windows can't be super windows and just as strong, or stronger than the rest of the hull. You could make the windows geometry, with a two meter inset, with textures inside which look like rooms. That would make for some striking closeups.

    The way the secondary weapons are created, they don't even need animation in the shows, they're usually just a blister of some sort. It comes down to a lack of communication between the authors, directors, and art directors; they are all telling different stories. The ship, and first dibs on animation is up to you, so you have more options in how it is presented.


    I like thinking of them as siege guns too. The way Trek works though, they probably work well against ships to, which is fine.
    Ashkael wrote: »
    Thank you for all the comments! I guess if we start to argue about the vulnerability and necessity of things like windows, pipes, tanks,... there would be absolutely no reason for greebling our ships, since the only think IA’d put on the outer hull would be armor plates, necessary cooling panels, weapons and so forth. :)
    Anyway here is a little update, IA’m starting to figure out the greeble thing and getting more fluid in creating them, but IA’m quite busy with studying right now, so updates will be slow!

    cruiser24.jpg

    Incoming 2 Cents


    Ashkael, it's your project, do what you want.
    Sci Fi meshes is a terrific resource of minds, experience and perspectives on a wide range of subjects. I think being here is not just a source of self advertisement it's a base of knowledge and advice you may not get any where else and considering that there are "people watching" who could discover your work the collective input they offer is most worthwhile in advancing skills and career.

    That being said, I have to agree with the sentiments of the others.
    I don't disagree with all windows and certainly your ship doesn't over use them. However if this ship is of any considerable size they are a bit large and consume a substantial amount of surface area. You should consider how many decks and how large you want it to be first. If you've already designed it and the design is fixed then I understand.
  • AshkaelAshkael0 Posts: 0Member
    Thank you for all your comments!

    @ saquist: Of course IA’ll do what I want ;-) But as you said I really appreciate all the critics and support I get, with every mesh I learn more about modelling (special thanks to spacefighter, life is so much easier now) and after all this is scifi, so the only limit is imagination!

    That beeing said, here is another small update, but I think as mentioned earlier concerning the windows, I have some really big scale issues. Any tips on how to establish a personal reference for detail size? IA’m quite sure the screws I added around the reactor cores look nice, but are probably as big as a car :-)

    cruiser25.jpg
    105249.jpg
  • spacefighterspacefighter2 Posts: 0Member
    even better than last time, i see what you mean about big screws but given the composition and size of the pic they are almost impossible to spot if i hadn't know to look for them. that sort of "screws at the corners" effect can be cool(i did it on the control panels for my fighter) so my advice there is simply reshape those details so they are something other than screws, but leave some sort of "thing" in their positions. by the way if those screws are each the size of a car then your ship is truly colossal, part of me wonders if it really needs to be THAT big. all your detailing seems to further have improved since the last pic you posted, my advice is when ot comes to engines take a few hours to search over a mixture of: pictures of real rocket and jet engines, short explanations of hypothetical propulsion systems(so you can get an idea of what is needed and what sort of capabilities you could pick from), pictures of engine designs you like in scifi and artists impressions of future engines. would advise making the engine "bell/nozzle" areas very detailed, those in trek(atleast the older serieses) are generally too lacking so go for something other than a glowing bit within an offset sunken in shape.
  • AshkaelAshkael0 Posts: 0Member
    I liked your advice spacefighter, so here is a first impression of the sublight engines. I always liked the linear aerospike idea, so IA’ll try to adopt it. There will be 2 of those monsters btw.

    cruiser25.jpg
    105256.jpg
  • spacefighterspacefighter2 Posts: 0Member
    Ashkael wrote: »
    I liked your advice spacefighter, so here is a first impression of the sublight engines. I always liked the linear aerospike idea, so IA’ll try to adopt it. There will be 2 of those monsters btw.

    cruiser25.jpg

    quite nice, when referred to awful glowy bits i meant the stuff like you see behind your aerospike. i like your spike design though whether it would be truly appropriate for whatever your engine type is(i hope you don't plan to chemical fuels for your cruiser, they will give you real problems with your delta V) i am unsure but it should be good. aerospikes are generally designed to compensate for the fact that a standard rocket bell needs to be longer in the vacuum that in atmo, so that's another reason they might not be right. but they are quite cool. now if you're using linear wedge shapes like that you may wish to alter the structure where your engines are held, try having all the engines along a line perhaps across the backs of your wings and maybe some circular profile ones above and below that line in the centre section where the engines currently are. like this, the image shows a green (assumed from what i can see in your pics) rear profile of half the ship, wings may be out of proportion a little. blue circles are the bell shaped engine, red rectangles the aerospikes, orange ones the back ends of your nacelles.
    rear profile.png
    105257.png
  • AshkaelAshkael0 Posts: 0Member
    Well of course the sublight engines will have to be more efficent and powerfull than my aerospike reference nowadays. ;-)
    IA’m still trying to figure out the new engine design, meanwhile I did some cleaning of the mesh, added more detail and found a nice 3d total texture map for the sensor array. Panelling and greebling is getting much more fluid, but a lot of time goes into messing around with the wings, IA’m still not happy about how they connect to the "nacelles". Anyway thank you for all your comments so far and here are some updates:

    cruiser28.jpg
    cruiser29.jpg
    105281.jpg105282.jpg
  • AresiusAresius359 Posts: 4,171Member
    Let them flow more. Make the connecting base broader than the wing, so it "fans out". Or make the pylons angled.
  • AshkaelAshkael0 Posts: 0Member
    Sorry for the slow progress, itA’s been a busy week! Here are some more details on the bridge section:

    cruiser32.jpg

    @ Aresius: I tryed to make the wings more curvy, if that is what u meant by let them flow more, but wasnA’t sure if this matches my design, as I have mainly straight segments.

    cruiser33.jpg

    So I went and put something broader in between the main section and the wings. This would allow to align them as needed.

    cruiser34.jpgcruiser35.jpg
    105292.jpg105295.jpg105296.jpg105297.jpg
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1804256 Posts: 11,034Member
    Everything is looking great. I'm loving the details.
  • spacefighterspacefighter2 Posts: 0Member
    Ashkael wrote: »
    Sorry for the slow progress, itA’s been a busy week! Here are some more details on the bridge section:

    cruiser32.jpg

    @ Aresius: I tryed to make the wings more curvy, if that is what u meant by let them flow more, but wasnA’t sure if this matches my design, as I have mainly straight segments.

    cruiser33.jpg

    So I went and put something broader in between the main section and the wings. This would allow to align them as needed.

    cruiser34.jpgcruiser35.jpg

    great detailing, still seeing problems in same areas though. the nacelle(?) intakes are far too plain, the glowing area needs some sort of more complex structure in front of it. try the sort of shape you get with baffles in a bell tower. the regions just outward of the bridge behind the forward prongs are also far too plain, try the same sort of panelling you used on the prongs. the blank bits on the wings and the central engine need more details also. nice to see the change of the deflector dish/ superweapon on the underside to something with more detail and a smaller glowing bit.
  • AresiusAresius359 Posts: 4,171Member
    Yeah, for instance like that, nice idea. Sweeping backward makes a ship appear faster, more streamlined, usually. Sweeping it forward makes it look more aggressive and dominant.

    Else I agree with spacefighter
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