Doug Drexler interview on The Venus Project

Deks

Enjoy

D-Jota

I could listen to Doug talk about this stuff (and his memories of working on Star Trek) all day! - Such a shame that Drexfiles has been shut down.

I have maintained an interest in Jacque Fresco and The Venus Project for a lot of years now; I refer you all to the DVD “Future By Design” and his book “The Best That Money Can't Buy”; Jacque's philosophy is definitely one that I subscribe to.

Earlier this year some columnist at BBC News had been writing several features on the cities of tomorrow (both utopian and dystopian); I contacted her to see if she'd be up for running a feature on Jacque and... she did! - SEE: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23799590

So, yeah... Pretty sure a resource-based economy is the way to go... Everyone should also check out Peter Joseph and the Zeitgeist Movement as well.

Saquist

This will be an unpopular view simply because Doug Drexler is a popular figure among Trek Fans....

But the other artist are correct.
Despite his ample praise in accreditation of those images in text the picture were highly deceiving and Drexler should have know better. I very often thought some images were all his like the CGI Voyager. I don't know for sure but if you're a respectable artist that is something you don't due. Paying proper respect to the work of others includes NOT branding their work with your logo.

Deks

I didn't post this for popularity sake. Merely to bring to attention that Doug evidently supports The Venus Project (which in my view is very nice to see).

Been following TVP and TZM for years now, and am also one of point of contacts for TVP.
I like exposing people to this kind of stuff, to help them put things into a different perspective and set aside potential preconceived notions.
Its a process of course, but the more they learn about how things work, the more they understand - and in the end, this isn't necessarily about acceptance, but rather pure exposure to the information so they can at least keep it in mind.

Saquist

I know I was speaking of the shut down of Drex files.

But I don't know anything about this Venus Project.
It sounds like this person thinks much as I do as to design and the future and the possibilities man has. The reality though is sobering. Mankind is trifling petty greedy and ignorant.I wish I could say in the hundred years after I'm gone that amazing things are to come...maybe they are but it looks like a quagmire from here.

This is why I posted regularly on Space X before the thread was displaced. It's hard getting people excited over these things. We're so inured upon a broken world system that we squander our potential and our future. These things could be happening now...

Chris2005

Yea, this is merely a pipe dream from what I can see of the current state of the world...

Deks

Its not a pipe dream.
Not by a long shot - especially when you take into account we had the technology to make this happen decades ago.
The current problem with the world is lack of exposure to relevant general education, critical thinking and problem solving.
Exposure to info is changing by the day, and its accelerating thanks to the Internet and social networks.
In short: relevant data is reaching many more people than before (regardless if they are bombarded or seek irrelevant info), and many more are starting to realize that TVP is actually offering comprehensive solutions.

Also keep in mind that the current economic problems around the globe are directly tied to automation taking over, and that we are looking at a global collapse of the monetary system in approximately less than 10 years, or at most 16 years (per MIT study).

With the technology we have today, we can easily automate over 75% of the global workforce tomorrow.
Of course, living in a monetary system, you look at things from a cost effective point of view, and the reality is that automating jobs is becoming ever easier, more cost effective and faster than waiting for people to educate themselves, start working, etc.
When the economy finally collapses completely due to automation (which is inevitable), people will likely turn to existing governments and institutions only to realize they have no solutions and never did.
No one is 'irreplaceable' because what Humans do are mainly either repetitive tasks or highly specialized task - in which computers surpassed Humans roughly 10 years ago.
What Humans do is a technical process - its quantifiable, therefore it can be programmed into a computer/robot/machine to do.

This is why exposure to TVP and RBE in general is necessary, so that when the collapse occurs, people will understand we can do a lot better.
Expecting a change before the collapse occurs is relatively unlikely... possible, but not very likely to occur.
Its been estimated that if the media for example was behind this and promoted TVP/RBE heavily for the purpose of educating the populace... a few months would be necessary for the mindset of most western countries to be educated on this premise.
Similarly, we cannot simply create RBE type of world and transfer people with the present mindset/mentality into it, because that would likely result in the same issues - people would latch on to things most familiar (drawing from the existing system and way of doing things) and wouldn't know how to function in such a world without necessary education.

The actual transformation of Earth's surface (repairing environmental damage, as well as creating new infrastructure, etc.) would take approximately 1 year with the technology we have today.
In 1974, it would have taken 10 years to change the surface of the Earth using automation of those times.

Its definitely doable, and can be done in a fraction of the time that people seemingly project.
Point is, we don't have to wait decades or centuries.
Its a matter of proper exposure/education and mass volunteer consensus to change things - the latter of which is most likely to occur when the present system completely collapses (due to people losing whatever vestige of 'security' and 'comfort' they may be getting from the present system), and the former is already occurring.

Remember that as society becomes more technological and automated, scientific and technical breakthroughs occur exponentially, not linearly.
The monetary system is preventing us from using latest science and technology because it operates on the notion of what is monetarily cheap and cost effective... it doesn't focus on available resources, sustainability, or maximum technical efficiency in a way that doesn't harm the environment (which is crucial to our very survival).

The topic IS extensive of course... and those who are interested, I encourage you to go to www.thevenusproject.com and study the FAQ section in detail (its extensive, so take your time, but its also definitely worth it).

Chris2005

I don't disagree... we've had the technology, etc. for a long time now... but with all the special interest groups only interested in profit... and until we get rid of big oil, etc. we're pretty much stuck...

My dad expresses constant dislike for all the automation... he's like, "People don't know what hard labor is anymore."

I love the idea of TVP, etc. it's really uplifting, but I look at humanity and I just don't see it happening in my early lifetime... maybe toward the end of my lifetime... but not before...

Deks

I understand what you mean.
I also encountered people who seemingly romanticize the notion of 'hard work' to the point where they think its very important.

These people have a hard time separating themselves from the mentality of 'working for a living' because its been ingrained into their brains from early childhood to think like this, and of course, they seem to think that automating everything would create a world full of lazy people who effectively sit around doing nothing - which of course has 0 basis in reality since its been readily observed that Humans dedicate their time to what they can in accordance to their purchasing power (in the present system).
If they lack the purchasing power to do something, they probably wont do it due to those limitations and will focus on things that are accessible to them.
If anything, its also been observed that the monetary system itself is creating lazy people people because it forces the notion that you need to get a job that would provide money in order to even survive, let alone live - which ultimately often leads to people working on jobs they don't want to do for mere survival simply because they lack the money to do anything else.

Add excessive competition into the mix and artificially induced scarcity of available positions, and you end up with a severe problem where people need to go into excessive debt for the purpose of 'getting an education', which in itself is 0 guarantee they will get to work on what they really love.

As for special interest groups that have main interest in profit...
Yes, they are a problem, but really will not be for much longer.
The impending collapse will force the general population (and even the 'elite') one way or another to re-evaluate the way of life we currently have.
This is why educating the population on solutions such as The Venus Project right now is crucial so they can keep things in mind when the collapse actually occurs... and at most, we are 16 years away from that point... but that's a rather generous estimate from MIT which probably fails to integrate into account excessive/exponential increase in automation everywhere which will likely result in a collapse in under 10 years.

Keep in mind the premise that things are occurring much faster today than they did in the past, and are a lot different than they were when the first great depression began in 1929.
People DO know more than they did before, and in a general sense, most people around the globe understand that something is not right and that we cannot go on like we did until now (also, the general populations of any other country or nation doesn't really want to go to war with another nation - those kinds of decisions come from the pathetic idiots in positions of power who were never trained to be problem solvers or solve technical issues - and besides, the notion of leaders or governments easily falls apart when you have a population exposed to relevant general education, critical thinking and problem solving, because such people are capable of governing themselves and arriving at decisions).
We also live in part of our history where technology and science are clashing with the monetary system (outdated way of doing things).

Btw... TVP is working on a major motion picture for the purpose of showing what life could be in RBE. And educational tool if you will going into detail explaining things.

Its actually fascinating that the amount of people who take interest in TVP by watching existing documentaries are in the majority (only a minor portion of them seem to not agree with that particular direction - then again, RBE is not based on an established way of doing things but constantly changes).

I think a viable transition to RBE could encompass a Guaranteed Basic Income for a temporary amount of time (say 5 to 10 years) to help people make the transition easier by de-emphasizing the prospect of 'needing money' in the first place gradually.

Switzerland to my knowledge is planning to incorporate the guaranteed basic income in 2014 if I'm not mistaken.
And I also read that a similar experimental program was introduced for a very limited time period in Canada in the 1970-ies with great success, but supposedly, it never took off due to the results of the study showing that such a way of doing things was actually working for the better or they ran out of 'funding'.
At any rate, the papers from those studies in Canada were not published until recently. I'll try to find some more info on it to post it here.

Chris2005

What I'm not sure about, is in an RBE... do people not get paid anymore?

If so, how does one acquire food, get electricity, etc?

Of course, I hope in the future people will be able to get more efficient solar power for their own house... right now, it's beyond the average person's income... not so much the panels, etc. it's the cost of installation...

How would one acquire what they need to buy now?

Deks

This is an answer extract from TVP's FAQ section (question number 2):

"Simply stated, within a Resource Based Economy we will utilize existing resources - rather than money - to provide an equitable method of distribution in the most humane and efficient manner. It is a system in which all goods and services are available to everyone without the use of money, credits, barter, or any other form of debt or servitude."

We'd have to educate the general population before implementing RBE on notions of sustainability, etc. as well as construct new self-sufficient cities based on maximum technical efficiency (producing abundance with least amount of resources and no damage to the planet while also offering highest possible quality of life to everyone - which would be about 3x greater compared to what the richest person currently has).

In this regard, goods are services are produced locally and accessible via 'distribution centers'.
So if you need something, or want something, you make a requisition order and can get it at the said center completely free... though I would imagine, deliveries will be available as well.

The whole point is to ensure everyone has access to what they need so people don't have to worry about whether they have enough to survive.
Basic necessities include: clean air, clean water, quality food, quality clothing, access to relevant general education, access to quality transport, quality housing, and quality medical care - this is automatically designed into the system so every Human on Earth is covered on this front.

And if you might be thinking how will this prevent people from taking more than they can:
Relevant general education and the transitional period from a monetary system into RBE which will serve as an adjustment period (this could be anywhere from 1 to 5 or 10 years - depending).
The acquisition of material wealth will no longer be of relevance in RBE like it is emphasized now in a monetary system.
And also, using common sense, people will understand that simply taking infinite amount of stuff is not sustainable. Furthermore, what's the point?
You only have finite space to work with, so take what is necessary/desirable and use everything else when you actually need it. When you no longer need it, you can return it to the distribution center so it can be either given to someone else to use or harvested for its raw materials.
The concept of ownership no longer applies here, because you focus on USERSHIP instead.
Private ownership in reality doesn't mean anything (and even in the monetary system it doesn't really do anything from protecting what you have). Everything is temporary at best, but the difference is that in RBE, no one would even try stealing anything because they can simply go to the distribution center and ask for whatever it is they wish because they have unrestricted access to it.
So, if someone is using a state of art smartphone (For example) in RBE, if others want to use it, they can put up their old ones up for recycling and get a new one for usage, or simply requisition one if they didn't have it in the first place and need it.

Essentially, people will have real-time access to data from the environment. We will assess how many resources we have, how much we can create, etc.
The thing here is to eliminate excessive waste as well as planned obsolescence - which means ramping up recycling to the maximum (such as using the landfills for harvesting raw materials and using them to generate superior synthetic materials and other goods and services) and ensuring quality control and only producing amounts which are ordered (and not excessive amounts like its done now which ends up in waste).

Since it will no longer be every person for themselves - people will be able to attribute more attention into how their actions reflect on others, etc.
Its a different kind of environment which cannot be compared to the monetary system.

And btw... that's no 'utopia'.
A 'utopia' implies 'perfection' or that things cannot be improved anymore.
If anything, when people claim that 'we will never get rid of money', or 'money is the best way to distribute resources', they are essentially making a 'utopianist projection' (because they think that things can't get better than that).
In RBE, the goal is to create an emergent society (instead of an established one like we have today).
An emergent society is a society which is not 'set in its ways' and constantly changes.
So if you think change is happening fast today (its not - it at a proverbial snails pace actually), you'll be surprised by what will happen in RBE.
For example... most people today have 0 ability to contribute in any meaningful capacity by being limited to what they can do through 'money'.
Eliminate money along with necessity for 'working for a living' (via automation), and allow people unrestricted access to what they need (resources) to reach and surpass their potential.

It would be like having a population of 7 billion Einsteins, Tesla's, DaVinci's, etc, all with the ability to directly participate and contribute their ideas and thoughts in research etc.
So if you think things are occurring exponentially now, imagine the quantum leaps that we will be doing on a practically weekly if not daily basis.

Money is an extremely limiting factor.
Focus on what is actually needed: available resources as well as technology and knowledge.
You cannot drink, eat or breathe money. For that you need water, food and air.

If there is a scarcity of a certain material, we then create a synthetic derivative with same or much better properties in abundance, and we had the ability to create a whole bunch of superior synthetic materials in sustainable abundance for everyone and industry at large for better part of the last 100 years.
Technical efficiency essentially states that we are capable of producing more by using less resources.
In a monetary system, this doesn't work so well because it clashes with the profit motive (hence why you have planned obsolescence and so much waste) and generates excessive waste (the globe is producing enough food to feed 12 billion people, and still close to half of it is being destroyed for aesthetic reasons, while the West trashes about 40% of perfectly fine food)

There's enough raw material on landfills alone for us to generate anything we can think of, approximately 10x more, using 3x less (compared to what we do now - and take into account we already generate abundance).
Point being: no more need to extract fresh resources from the ground, and using maximum technical efficiency will ensure not only generate massive abundance with much fewer resources, but also to repair the damage done to the Earth in just 1 year.

I definitely suggest you read TVP FAQ section... it contains comprehensive set of answers on how you acquire what you need and want.

I can definitely provide answers in this regard but it would be better for you to read it yourself - the process would go faster.

Saquist

That sound wonderful but 10 to 15 years of education isn't going to remove the desire of greed and selfishness from mankind. That's deeply ingrained for millions of years.

The idea is a nice concept but just as with politics the question is where is the checks and balances. How do you prevent over accumulation of power and possessions. That's extremely important, it can't simply be self regulating from the outset until the society is firmly established. When we go to Mars and they have the option or starting a new society they will have this choice or and RBE...

How do you maintain this new economy in the midst of others and in relation with others...
How do you deal with other societies that are RBE?

Those are the real tough questions.

spacefighter

this RBE sounds a nice idea but it would be very hard to achieve a transition from a current type of economy. that and humans will always try to get one step ahead of everyone else even if it doesn't actually give them a true advantage. the most effective way to do this may be to set up a colony(in space or at sea) running the system with only like minded logically behaved people volunteering to enter it. even then you face issues with how to interact with the rest of the world as one must atleast when forming the society. at present we are horrifically inefficient and most of that wasting is hidden from consumers so they don't realise quite how fraudulently they are being ripped off.

Saquist

Such a colony would have to be extremely small at first. It must be intrinsically idealistic and hardworking in ethic. It can't simply be a cozy loafing society. People would have to justify their presence because of skills since automation would handle manual labor. This is a good idea because busy hands have less idle time for trouble but it also creates an environment by which hard work and knowledge can be used as an ascension of authorities.

Politically people would be anointed to positions by testing instead of merely democratic elections. Politics could not be a profession in this society. The power of government wold lie strictly in the hands of the people. Laws could not be passed without the knowledge and full understanding of the people. This would literally be a constantly tested society where you prove you understand any legislature before you vote on it, or know and understand the abilities of a person before you vote on them.

With no money in the equation campaigning becomes purely academic instead of a matter of entertainment media. Full disclosure, Deceptions of any kind are deemed unfitting of any office of the people. Qualifications for the office become the paramount concern instead of scandals and popularity.

Edit:
The only problem is what to do with people who are willful drains upon the resoursces with no contributions. This includes what we call in RBE homeless or welfare families aswell as abandoned children and the elderly or disabled. These are the truly difficult questions to ask.

Deks

Saquist wrote: »

That sound wonderful but 10 to 15 years of education isn't going to remove the desire of greed and selfishness from mankind. That's deeply ingrained for millions of years.

The idea is a nice concept but just as with politics the question is where is the checks and balances. How do you prevent over accumulation of power and possessions. That's extremely important, it can't simply be self regulating from the outset until the society is firmly established. When we go to Mars and they have the option or starting a new society they will have this choice or and RBE...

How do you maintain this new economy in the midst of others and in relation with others...
How do you deal with other societies that are RBE?

Those are the real tough questions.

Actually, it has been estimated that if the current media network in all western countries actively work to promote TVP/RBE, and educate the population at large on a constant basis... the mental change would only take a few months time.

As for removing the desire of greed and selfishness from mankind - those are learned behaviors which depend on the environment to 'flourish'.
By changing the environment from a competitive to cooperative one, as well as emphasizing sustainability, etc., you remove the underlying conditions which perpetrate the old mentality and create new underlying parameters that will prompt people to adapt.
Besides, we have readily observed that Humans are highly adaptive. The Human brain is extremely malleable.

As for how to remove accumulation of power and possessions... that's quite simple:
RBE is a different environment.
It has no governments, leaders, people in power, etc.
Remember, its an automated economy.
But this isn't the sole answer.
Exposing Humans to relevant general education, critical thinking and problem solving creates people capable of governing themselves.
Decisions are not 'made' by anyone. They are arrived at through the scientific method. This eliminates the notion of personal opinions because they are usually riddled with emotions and bias.
Arriving at decisions means using the scientific method to observe the environment, having real-time data and test to see what can be done to improve upon things while maintaining a high standard of living but at little to no damage to the environment for example.
Instead of arguing over who has the 'best' idea... you take available data and TEST to see what works and what doesn't.
Then you test for falsification and keep an open mind to the possibility the results could be incorrect, but then you still proceed with the results that the experiments achieved as most favorable for everyone as well as the environment with highest possible efficiency.

Also... do you really need governments, leaders and politicians to tell you how to behave?
No.
Actually, most of our problems today exist because we retained this archaic notion of people in power, leaders, and politicians in the first place.
They can mainly exist due to the general population lacking in relevant education and critical thinking.
Self-governance isn't difficult really.
With constant real-time data input from the environment, we can immediately act to actually do something about potential problems that might arise. Politicians delay and play stupid games, and are there to maintain the status quo.
They are fundamentally useless and are not problem solvers - because our problems are technical, not political.
Ask a politician how they intend to solve the question of localized food production, or clean and abundant sustainable energy, or clean water, etc.
The main answers you get from them are: 'I don't know' or 'we'll cross that bridge when we come to it' (most of the time though, they simply avoid these questions to begin with and try to redirect you to something completely irrelevant).
As I said... they are USELESS.
RBE has no conditions where accumulation of power is possible, and acquiring material possessions has been surpassed because people no longer live in an environment which promotes those types of behavior.
Its quite simple really - different, but simple.

Also, the upcoming global crash of the monetary system is unavoidable. This will be the so-called 'tipping point' where people will start losing everything they have from the present system (every single facet of 'security' and 'stability'). Once they do, they will turn to the existing institutions and people in power for answers, which of course will have none (because they are not problem solvers), and THIS will effectively force people to take into account alternative solutions (like TVP).
But exposing as many people as possible until the collapse occurs is crucial, otherwise, we run a risk at creating yet another version of the monetary system and repeating the same mistakes (socialism, fascism and communism for example ALL used money - they were variations on the same theme, the monetary system and didn't even address the fundamental root causes of our problems) - but I don't think this is necessarily a 'given' because we live in fundamentally different times today (and we managed to surprise ourselves on more accounts before).

The goal is to achieve global consensus from most if not all nations on Earth to engage in a transition towards RBE because we'd have to create a global survey to assess just how many resources we have on Earth to begin with, as well as ascertain its maximum carrying capacity, etc.
Not an easy task I agree, but TVP has been at this for some time and exposure is wide-spread at this point with more and more people getting exposed to the information in question, etc.
The next 5 to 10 years alone will likely bring massive improvements in terms of education (including the major motion picture) and quite possibly/likely active steps taken for the purpose of transitioning into RBE.
Already, we are seeing active pushes towards sustainability (limited as they may be due to the confines of the monetary system) and notions similar for RBE.

Deks

spacefighter wrote: »

this RBE sounds a nice idea but it would be very hard to achieve a transition from a current type of economy. that and humans will always try to get one step ahead of everyone else even if it doesn't actually give them a true advantage. the most effective way to do this may be to set up a colony(in space or at sea) running the system with only like minded logically behaved people volunteering to enter it. even then you face issues with how to interact with the rest of the world as one must atleast when forming the society. at present we are horrifically inefficient and most of that wasting is hidden from consumers so they don't realise quite how fraudulently they are being ripped off.

Humanity will be forced to re-examine its way of doing things either way with the upcoming collapse of the monetary system which is fast approaching and will likely occur within 10 years, or at most 16 years (per MIT study).
Its unavoidable.

The only reason some Humans try to get ahead of others is because they learned to behave this way and because they live in an environment which promotes this type of behavior (the monetary system).
Also, not all Humans behave like this even in the monetary system (you'd be surprised just how many behave in a completely opposite capacity every chance they get).
Change the environment, and you change Human behavior - its as simple as that (and was readily observed).

A colony in space or at sea will likely fail unless you educate the population on the concepts of RBE, how it works, how the resources are created, how they acquire them, etc.
You cannot simply transfer people with an existing mentality into RBE, because you'd end up with the same issues.

Besides, our problems are here on Earth. They need to be addressed, otherwise, any subsequent community which is created will be ripe for a potential attack by those living in a monetary based system which thrives on conflict and invasion of other areas for the purpose of attaining resources (which is exactly what wars are).
To that end, no general population of any country/nation really wants to wage wars with another nation - its the people in power who create wars and depend on a brainwashed populace to follow them into submission.
Instead of trying to BRIDGE the gap between cultures, they resort to violence and force, as well as brainwashed populace to maintain the status quo and actually think all of it is a 'good' thing (that that's how things are 'supposed' to be).

Saquist

Deks wrote: »

Actually, it has been estimated that if the current media network in all western countries actively work to promote TVP/RBE, and educate the population at large on a constant basis... the mental change would only take a few months time.

As for removing the desire of greed and selfishness from mankind - those are learned behaviors which depend on the environment to 'flourish'.
By changing the environment from a competitive to cooperative one, as well as emphasizing sustainability, etc., you remove the underlying conditions which perpetrate the old mentality and create new underlying parameters that will prompt people to adapt.
Besides, we have readily observed that Humans are highly adaptive. The Human brain is extremely malleable.

As for how to remove accumulation of power and possessions... that's quite simple:
RBE is a different environment.
It has no governments, leaders, people in power, etc.
Remember, its an automated economy.
But this isn't the sole answer.
Exposing Humans to relevant general education, critical thinking and problem solving creates people capable of governing themselves.
Decisions are not 'made' by anyone. They are arrived at through the scientific method. This eliminates the notion of personal opinions because they are usually riddled with emotions and bias.
Arriving at decisions means using the scientific method to observe the environment, having real-time data and test to see what can be done to improve upon things while maintaining a high standard of living but at little to no damage to the environment for example.
Instead of arguing over who has the 'best' idea... you take available data and TEST to see what works and what doesn't.
Then you test for falsification and keep an open mind to the possibility the results could be incorrect, but then you still proceed with the results that the experiments achieved as most favorable for everyone as well as the environment with highest possible efficiency.

Also... do you really need governments, leaders and politicians to tell you how to behave?
No.
Actually, most of our problems today exist because we retained this archaic notion of people in power, leaders, and politicians in the first place.
They can mainly exist due to the general population lacking in relevant education and critical thinking.
Self-governance isn't difficult really.
With constant real-time data input from the environment, we can immediately act to actually do something about potential problems that might arise. Politicians delay and play stupid games, and are there to maintain the status quo.
They are fundamentally useless and are not problem solvers - because our problems are technical, not political.
Ask a politician how they intend to solve the question of localized food production, or clean and abundant sustainable energy, or clean water, etc.
The main answers you get from them are: 'I don't know' or 'we'll cross that bridge when we come to it' (most of the time though, they simply avoid these questions to begin with and try to redirect you to something completely irrelevant).
As I said... they are USELESS.
RBE has no conditions where accumulation of power is possible, and acquiring material possessions has been surpassed because people no longer live in an environment which promotes those types of behavior.
Its quite simple really - different, but simple.

Also, the upcoming global crash of the monetary system is unavoidable. This will be the so-called 'tipping point' where people will start losing everything they have from the present system (every single facet of 'security' and 'stability'). Once they do, they will turn to the existing institutions and people in power for answers, which of course will have none (because they are not problem solvers), and THIS will effectively force people to take into account alternative solutions (like TVP).
But exposing as many people as possible until the collapse occurs is crucial, otherwise, we run a risk at creating yet another version of the monetary system and repeating the same mistakes (socialism, fascism and communism for example ALL used money - they were variations on the same theme, the monetary system and didn't even address the fundamental root causes of our problems) - but I don't think this is necessarily a 'given' because we live in fundamentally different times today (and we managed to surprise ourselves on more accounts before).

The goal is to achieve global consensus from most if not all nations on Earth to engage in a transition towards RBE because we'd have to create a global survey to assess just how many resources we have on Earth to begin with, as well as ascertain its maximum carrying capacity, etc.
Not an easy task I agree, but TVP has been at this for some time and exposure is wide-spread at this point with more and more people getting exposed to the information in question, etc.
The next 5 to 10 years alone will likely bring massive improvements in terms of education (including the major motion picture) and quite possibly/likely active steps taken for the purpose of transitioning into RBE.
Already, we are seeing active pushes towards sustainability (limited as they may be due to the confines of the monetary system) and notions similar for RBE.

*whistles*
Some of those declarations are sweeping statements.

-For instance you begin by using the media to recondition society. I'm all for training but thought control is dangerous in the wrong hands. It's very reason why our society is changing (and not for the better right now because the media is in the hands of powerful elites.

-While many human behaviors are learned and enabled environmentally, the brain is built on primitive stages and it's most primitive stage (The Amygdala) harbors our most instinctual fears and impulses from when the species first struggled with survival and greed (like with canines) is likely to be one of those primal impulses that will not simply go away with a few months of conditioning. That's a tremendous oversimplification to transcend millions of years of evolution.

-Along those lines the need to further the species is a drive that creates the impulse to dominate each other. These impulses are NOT merely a matter of environment they are now genetic. Genetic impulses can be controlled and tapered but lets not suggest their reasons for being are so easily removed when we're talking a population of Billions of supposedly independent minds.

-Thirdly the Scientific Method is a rule of discovery not a rule of morality or governing. The Method has no innate ability to control human behavior. This made extremely obvious in the scientific community where back biting and stabbing or credit theft proves that the Method itself is honor-less in the scientific Community. What you're talking about is Inductive/Deductive reasoning but you will still require agreement to use these rules to their fullest because if history has proven anything is that humans are habitually incapable of ruling themselves and that government is an extremely necessary system to outline rules laws and punishment for those that fail to follow them.

Deks

-For instance you begin by using the media to recondition society. I'm all for training but thought control is dangerous in the wrong hands. It's very reason why our society is changing (and not for the better right now because the media is in the hands of powerful elites.

No one is suggesting 'thought control' of any kind.
When I mentioned usage of all media for the purpose of education, I meant in a sense to present people with the documentaries that show the underlying problems that plague society as we know is (good examples of this include: 'Paradise or Oblivion' and 'Zeitgeist: Moving Forward').
Those are purely educational documentaries. And if subjects related to RBE and TVP are running on TVP on a relatively continuous basis (receiving wide exposure), the mental change would occur in a few months time.
Look at the amount stupidities the media presents general population with - all those advertisements specifically designed to goad people into buying certain things. There's your educational power right there.

While many human behaviors are learned and enabled environmentally, the brain is built on primitive stages and it's most primitive stage (The Amygdala) harbors our most instinctual fears and impulses from when the species first struggled with survival and greed (like with canines) is likely to be one of those primal impulses that will not simply go away with a few months of conditioning. That's a tremendous oversimplification to transcend millions of years of evolution.

Actually, there is no conclusive scientific data on the notion that Humans have instincts.
Environmental stimulus is an extremely potent effect and already occurs while a Human is at developing stages in the womb. The mother's dietary habits, exercising habits, lifestyle, etc. ALL play factors in creating environmental stimulus which effectively 'impacts' the fetus, its development and creates unique responses later on.
A Human may be born with certain tendencies, but whether those tendencies are dormant, emerge or change at some point depends entirely on the environment.
In short, without the environment, genetics alone can do next to nothing in terms of Human behavior, which is why they are mainly in charge for physical characteristics.

-Along those lines the need to further the species is a drive that creates the impulse to dominate each other. These impulses are NOT merely a matter of environment they are now genetic. Genetic impulses can be controlled and tapered but lets not suggest their reasons for being are so easily removed when we're talking a population of Billions of supposedly independent minds.

The need to further species is a drive? I would disagree on that one since there are plenty examples of Humans who do NOT want any kids at all - I'm one of such people, and there are also increasing examples in the animal kingdom itself where we observed how numerous mothers reject their offsprings (Human mothers as well). I would hardly call that 'genetic', since it implies it should be present in all Humans, and yet, its readily absent from many - which seems to imply behavior directly influenced by the environment.
Furthermore, we have directly observed that access to basic necessities, education and quality medical care results in a stable population where the birth rates are actually lower compared to the replacement line.
Much poorer countries and families in the said countries often have a lot of children in order to ensure their own continuation/survival.

At any rate... even if genetics do play a certain role in human behavior, the effect is always overshadowed by the environment.
If a baby born in the USA was taken right after birth and left with the Amazonian head hunters, that child would grow up to be an Amazonian head hunter.
It would adopt their culture, values, behavior, language, and would have 0 knowledge of USA, English language, their customs, etc. - especially if it was never exposed to anything else.
Being born with a brain that absorbs information faster also won't turn you into a genius. Drop a baby with such a brain in the middle of a fascist environment and it will become a fascist that much faster.
The brain to our knowledge simply has no mechanism for filtering out information.

There is a good video presentation made by Daniel Pink on motivation for example (I suggest you look it up when you get the time) :
http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_pink_on_motivation.html

Other than that, if greed was ingrained into our genetics, there would never be humans who do voluntary work or act in a selfless manner most of the time.
Keep in mind that just because Humanity has lived in an environment which promotes greed and selfishness, it doesn't mean those behaviors are genetic at all, merely that Humans simply 'accepted' them as part of the norm (just as an Amazonian Head hunter would find acceptable to collect heads - its not 'wrong', just part of their culture - and culture CAN be changed).

-Thirdly the Scientific Method is a rule of discovery not a rule of morality or governing. The Method has no innate ability to control human behavior. This made extremely obvious in the scientific community where back biting and stabbing or credit theft proves that the Method itself is honor-less in the scientific Community. What you're talking about is Inductive/Deductive reasoning but you will still require agreement to use these rules to their fullest because if history has proven anything is that humans are habitually incapable of ruling themselves and that government is an extremely necessary system to outline rules laws and punishment for those that fail to follow them.

The point here I was trying to relay was that decisions today are often 'made' by Humans. As such, those decisions are riddled with personal bias and emotions that do not account for benefit of everyone.
What we should be trying to do however, is to ARRIVE at decisions void of preconceived notions and bias.
How are you going to determine what works best for you?
You will take the available knowledge/data and TEST to see what works and what doesn't and with which degree of efficiency.
For example, if you were to experiment with changing diets for the purpose of improving your health and fitness... would you focus exclusively on junk food knowing that it will not do anything for you in that regard, but instead could make things worse?
I doubt that.
Many people today look up relevant data on foods in general to construct a diet that they could do and test to see which foods work best for them.

This is a purely technical process which gives you the best possible options for consideration to develop the method which works best and has high efficiency.

If history demonstrated anything, its that at NO time throughout history the ENTIRE general population was ever exposed to relevant general education, critical thinking and problem solving.
This kind of lack of exposure creates Humans who are prone to manipulation and being used by others.
Good luck in manipulating critical thinkers who constantly question everything and are educated in a wide range of subjects.

One thing I should also point out is that education as it exists today is not 'relevant general education', but rather it is INDUSTRIALIZED education, which exclusively focuses on very specific sets of data.
Classes aren't interactive... questioning is discouraged, and no one is taught to be a problem solver or HOW to think (but rather WHAT to think).
This is the main reason why majority of Humans have been incapable of governing themselves.
They were not generalists, or encouraged to question everything - which made them ripe for exploitation and to consider what comes from those in 'power' as 'authentic'.

As I said before, all of these conditions have a rather predictable pattern which points to the very source of the problem.
Address the source of the problem instead of the symptoms, and you will solve the problem.

Saquist

Deks, I can accept that you believe there is no conclusive scientific data on human instincts but according to information I've seen that is the furthest from the truth in terms a reliable replicable results. You see instinct isn't just a reflex it's programed complex behavior to a specific impulse.

Programed Reflex:
There are many types of reflexes... most neurological and involuntary but these aren't complex behaviors (instincts). Breathing, blushing, vestibulo ocular reflex and, fight or flight. A Programed Reflex is a complex behavior and an example of it in every human being is Motion Priority Sight. Sight is extremely complex and over the millenniums mammalian species have created overlapping visual priorities. In humans, motion creates one attention priority while the distinct form of the human face creates another. However one always overrides the other. In an experiment you can perform on yourself you can see the Motion Priority override Facial Recognition.

Experiment
Place a mirror at the right side of the bridge of your nose covering the entire field of view of that eye while in the other eye look at a person's face real or merely one on a computer screen or picture. While holding the mirror with the left hand, hold up your right hand so you can see it in the mirror. Make sure to place both the Face and the reflection of your hand in the center of your vision. When you do this you'll notice that your sight divides...you can see both the face and your hand...however move your hand and the face disappears almost inexplicably without moving your eyes. In some situations some report (and I have experienced too) that when the face disappears the most distinctive parts of the face takes just an instant longer to disappear leading to what is called the Cheshire Cat Effect.

This is a neurological instinct because it's more complex than a single impulse (reflex) but a programed response to specific stimulus. It is by no means present in every human being. It is suggested and in some ways documented ,but not conclusively, that non functional autistic children lack this ability to recognize facial features and relate them with emotion. I have worked with the Sunrise Program and I have personally noted how difficult it is to teach these children to focus on the human face. They have to learn it...it's not pre-programmed such as the vast majority of infants show in recognizing faces.

Yawning is another human instinct, while there is nothing conclusive as to it's purpose the preponderance of data implies more than just a survival instinct that trends toward alertness but seems to be directly linked with empathy (a social behavior) in humans and implies that the most feral mammals are capable of great empathy. This behavior is present in the vast majority of humans and mammals even hours after birth. The lack of this instinct has been linked to psychopaths and sociopaths.

The Mammalian Diving Reflex is another extremely well documented instinctual complex behavior present not just in humans but a wide variety of animals and it is more than conclusive that humans have pre-programed responses to specific stimuli even at birth. I have never seen one scientific article implying that Human instinctual behavior does not exist or has not been proven in all examples conclusively. I am of course open to any data that would correct that perception.


Levels of Instinct.
Some can be overridden by environment, as you said the brain is plastic. That's obvious as an unadapting brain would not survive long. That is is why I listed the first Ocular example of a per-programmed instinct. Some people have shown an ability to override Motion Priority but when relaxed it remains. Breathing is also an instinct that can be overridden as well as the panic from not breathing it creates. Thus there are instincts you can control and some that you cannot control. Behaviors such as sex, aggression, Fear responses, eating and other emotionally linked impulses our among the most complex behaviors and always the most controllable human instincts (even if they are often not controlled well.) So regardless of any one example to the contrary such you and I the preponderance of data supports a mating instinct, that a plastic brain (and therefore intelligent) is capable of overriding it's more complex hormonal imperatives doesn't mean that the instinct is missing or lacking or invalid as a human instinct.

DrC

I find his screen real estate impressive.