You know, artificial gravity doesn't HAVE to violate Newton's Second Law any more than real gravity does. Perhaps when the gravity generator pulls on you, you pull on the gravity generator and there's no net force or conservation of momentum problems.
You know, artificial gravity doesn't HAVE to violate Newton's Second Law any more than real gravity does. Perhaps when the gravity generator pulls on you, you pull on the gravity generator and there's no net force or conservation of momentum problems.
If you CAN create gravitational pull sourse without actuall mass (singularity), it means you can create it again and again, further away from the first one. That means that you will allways have a net thrust.
As for artificial gravity, I agree I'd prefer to see the VIA-verse avoid it. It's a cheat, and would also have all sorts of non-obvious impacts on the science of the setting. It's also not really needed; IIRC a lot of the VIA ships can pull accelerations that are significant fractions of g, so for short trips not even a spin section is really required.
As for artificial gravity, I agree I'd prefer to see the VIA-verse avoid it. It's a cheat, and would also have all sorts of non-obvious impacts on the science of the setting. It's also not really needed; IIRC a lot of the VIA ships can pull accelerations that are significant fractions of g, so for short trips not even a spin section is really required.
-Will
VIA ships possess quite an awesome thrust, but VERY limited Delta-V. This means, they can perform awesome stunts in combat, but can`t sustain thrust for long time. This disadvantage is covered with FTL drive, which can transport ships without using propellant, but is very inaccurate and also have severe limitations.
At least it was this way for old VIA designs, as far as I remember.
As for Zero-g and spin gravity - travels, that lasts less then a year are not that risky, if crew is trained periodically.
All these things seems like a whole lot of over complication in regards of genetic and surgical engineering, if you want to get rid of spin gravity for more freedom in terms of ship design. Zero-g is not really a state that hampers your efficiency, we have plenty of astronauts that proved that you can be perfectly efficient, so tinkering with the guys biochemistry and wiring to adress bone loss, sense of equilibrium and other annoyances related to permanent zero-g might very well be much more economically and practically sound. Of course it's another pandora's box since there is no limit to the amount of modification you can slap onto your courageous posthuman soldiers.
VIA ships possess quite an awesome thrust, but VERY limited Delta-V. This means, they can perform awesome stunts in combat, but can`t sustain thrust for long time. This disadvantage is covered with FTL drive, which can transport ships without using propellant, but is very inaccurate and also have severe limitations.
At least it was this way for old VIA designs, as far as I remember.
As for Zero-g and spin gravity - travels, that lasts less then a year are not that risky, if crew is trained periodically.
Hmmm, I don't think the old VIA stats ever listed Delta-V for the ships, but I can buy that arguement. But I also agree that trips of less than a year at zero-g are probably survivable for the crew, with some precautions.
All these things seems like a whole lot of over complication in regards of genetic and surgical engineering, if you want to get rid of spin gravity for more freedom in terms of ship design. Zero-g is not really a state that hampers your efficiency, we have plenty of astronauts that proved that you can be perfectly efficient, so tinkering with the guys biochemistry and wiring to adress bone loss, sense of equilibrium and other annoyances related to permanent zero-g might very well be much more economically and practically sound. Of course it's another pandora's box since there is no limit to the amount of modification you can slap onto your courageous posthuman soldiers.
Right, IIRC from the fluff the VIA-verse doesn't have a lost in the way of post/trans-human modifications. Humans are still fundamentally human.
All these things seems like a whole lot of over complication in regards of genetic and surgical engineering, if you want to get rid of spin gravity for more freedom in terms of ship design. Zero-g is not really a state that hampers your efficiency, we have plenty of astronauts that proved that you can be perfectly efficient, so tinkering with the guys biochemistry and wiring to adress bone loss, sense of equilibrium and other annoyances related to permanent zero-g might very well be much more economically and practically sound. Of course it's another pandora's box since there is no limit to the amount of modification you can slap onto your courageous posthuman soldiers.
Right, IIRC from the fluff the VIA-verse doesn't have a lost in the way of post/trans-human modifications. Humans are still fundamentally human.
Will
HRE use genetic engeneering - so called "calcium hack" just for that reason. HRE`s smaller frigates don`t have spin-gravity habitats. However, number of modified humans are still few.
Hmmm, I don't think the old VIA stats ever listed Delta-V for the ships, but I can buy that arguement. But I also agree that trips of less than a year at zero-g are probably survivable for the crew, with some precautions.
-Will
It was never actually stated, or accurately calculated. However, judging from spare volume of propellant tanks, we can make a rough guess, that mass of propellant for most, if not all ships in VIA universe is significantly less then the mass of ships themself. That provide really poor delta-V.
If you CAN create gravitational pull sourse without actuall mass (singularity), it means you can create it again and again, further away from the first one. That means that you will allways have a net thrust.
Think of it like an electromagnet, where the "pull source" IS the generator. When a magnet pulls on something, that something pulls back on the magnet. You put your gravity generators under the decks. When someone is above them, the gravity generator pulls down on the person, and the person pulls up on the gravity generator. You need structural parts like "the deck" and "the generator mounting" to keep them apart, but no thrust is applied to the ship.
Think of it like an electromagnet, where the "pull source" IS the generator. When a magnet pulls on something, that something pulls back on the magnet. You put your gravity generators under the decks. When someone is above them, the gravity generator pulls down on the person, and the person pulls up on the gravity generator. You need structural parts like "the deck" and "the generator mounting" to keep them apart, but no thrust is applied to the ship.
Looks like I`m not clear enough to explain correctly. The "gravity generator" isn`t the problem. Problem is, the same devise can be re-designed to be used as propulsion. More then that - there is no reason NOT TO rebuilt it for this purpose. The simplest and dumbest way to use the device - throw inactive generator in the direction where motion required. Activate the generator - the ship and generator will receive some pull (9.8 m/s*s, actually) toward each other. Generator "falls" on the ship, but due to the much greated mass of the ship, large portion of momentum remains. Repeat, untill desired speed is reached. That`s what I mean by simplest reactionless engine.
HRE use genetic engeneering - so called "calcium hack" just for that reason. HRE`s smaller frigates don`t have spin-gravity habitats. However, number of modified humans are still few.
More then a year in microgravity. No spin-gravity, just regular physical training. No severe outcome of any sort.
The thing is with long term zero-g flight is that the training takes up a fairly large chunk of the day, every day. The crew of a ship with a spin section can cut this down to a couple of hours a week, less if they spend time in a gravity environment for things like meal times and other recreation
All this science talk is waaay over my history major brain!:)
Anywho, one of the things I want to explore more is vaccum only craft. Here is my idea for a US modular support craft. Think of it of being the VIA-verse version of the SH-60. Obviously inspired by Apollo or Constellation. I'm looking forward to doing a soyuz inspired one for the soviets.
I really like the look (vaccum only ships look the best!) and the amount of detail is absolutely awesome, but it's... tiny, for the intended role, isn't it? (Otherwise that girl in the above image is a mutant giantess from the future, maybe)
Haha! Yeah, she's from "Avatar". It's 27 feet long. What I'm thinking is the forward command section is detachable from the back with the wings and mission specific modules are inserted between the two. For the second sheet I'll show it with the different pods; AWACS, ECM, Cargo, and tanker are the ones I'm thinking of. So with the cargo pod it could be about 40 feet long.
Looks extremely good. A few questions.
1) Turret on top seems kinetic. Or VIA still use "star-wars" style lasers with barrels?
2) angled missile pods. Will create some pull, that will destabilize the ship, or impare maneuverability. May be it will be better to attach them, "vertically" and facing opposite directions to minimise launch impulse?
Thanks! I'm going with this being a railgun. Very true with the launchers, I tried them vertically but they just seemed more visually interesting angled like this.
nice overall design but there is something i do not like about the forward section, too blocky and boring in shape. rail gun is a nice idea. problems with angle of missile launchers can be solved by ensuring that they are a form of recoiless gunhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recoilless_rifleor by making them so that none of the gas expelled from the missiles exhaust hits any part of the ship. that way newtons third law(equal and opposite reaction) and the conservation of momentum are both satisfied by only the missile and it's exhaust gasses without involving the ship.. maybe even consider allowing the launchers to roatate around the x(left to right) axis i certainly would on a ship like this.
It seems you're talking about the revamped Yan, that for some reason i can't see on the forum but can only see on bbzw's imageshack account. it looks great and i'm really impressed by the increase in quality and detail of this new iteration of your designs (that's probably somethiing i will say for pretty much each and every of your future models ^^).
Stonecold, i don't see why launching the missiles at an angle would impair maneuvering. To my understanding, the instant they're launched they're independant from the Yan (even though still in their tubes, assuming the bottom is open, and we live in the magic lalalaland of perfect engineering) and don't apply momentum on it. Besides it looks cool that way and i like the shape of the missile boxes You can perfectly imagine the ship turning to point its turret and missiles toward the ennemy
However, (yet again, to my understanding) the radiators are still off, since the vertical ones will dissipate half their energy in the engines, as i don't think you can passively dissipate heat on only one side. You can however dissipate actively on one side by using peltier effect at the cost of some energy, and it doesn't seem like VIA-verse ships lack energy
Stonecold, i don't see why launching the missiles at an angle would impair maneuvering. To my understanding, the instant they're launched they're independant from the Yan (even though still in their tubes, assuming the bottom is open, and we live in the magic lalalaland of perfect engineering) and don't apply momentum on it. Besides it looks cool that way and i like the shape of the missile boxes You can perfectly imagine the ship turning to point its turret and missiles toward the ennemy
Keyword here is "perfect engineering". Exhaust gases from missiles will strike the tubes (even open ones), and provide some thrust. Thats why on later HRE ships FTL missiles are packed in dispensable containers and are just hanged on the outside of the ship. Detach it from ship, let it drift 20-30 meters away using low power cold-gas thrusters and only then engage main nuclear thrust. Sort of like this. If launching directly from stationary launcher, some recoil will be there in any case, so, some sort of countermeasure should be used. That`s just my opinion, nothing more.
@Spacefighter - If you think the Yan-class is "blocky and boring", you're gonna love their American counterparts
only the nose, the rear i like.
Thats why on later HRE ships FTL missiles are packed in dispensable containers and are just hanged on the outside of the ship. Detach it from ship, let it drift 20-30 meters away using low power cold-gas thrusters and only then engage main nuclear thrust.
that idea could be improved by letting the missiles drift far away and then firing in which case the enemy will find it harder to trace them back and find your ship(although they might be able to see your ship easily if you are thrusting). if they are autonomous enough you cousd even leave them in a system like mines and then when an enemy shows up they activate and fire themselves at it.
Posts
If you CAN create gravitational pull sourse without actuall mass (singularity), it means you can create it again and again, further away from the first one. That means that you will allways have a net thrust.
As for artificial gravity, I agree I'd prefer to see the VIA-verse avoid it. It's a cheat, and would also have all sorts of non-obvious impacts on the science of the setting. It's also not really needed; IIRC a lot of the VIA ships can pull accelerations that are significant fractions of g, so for short trips not even a spin section is really required.
-Will
At least it was this way for old VIA designs, as far as I remember.
As for Zero-g and spin gravity - travels, that lasts less then a year are not that risky, if crew is trained periodically.
Hmmm, I don't think the old VIA stats ever listed Delta-V for the ships, but I can buy that arguement. But I also agree that trips of less than a year at zero-g are probably survivable for the crew, with some precautions.
-Will
Right, IIRC from the fluff the VIA-verse doesn't have a lost in the way of post/trans-human modifications. Humans are still fundamentally human.
-Will
HRE use genetic engeneering - so called "calcium hack" just for that reason. HRE`s smaller frigates don`t have spin-gravity habitats. However, number of modified humans are still few.
It was never actually stated, or accurately calculated. However, judging from spare volume of propellant tanks, we can make a rough guess, that mass of propellant for most, if not all ships in VIA universe is significantly less then the mass of ships themself. That provide really poor delta-V.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_spaceflight_records#Ten_longest_human_space_flights
437.7 days[5]
Valeri Polyakov[5]
1994-01-08 (Soyuz TM-18)
1995-03-22 (Soyuz TM-20)
Mir[5]
More then a year in microgravity. No spin-gravity, just regular physical training. No severe outcome of any sort.
Think of it like an electromagnet, where the "pull source" IS the generator. When a magnet pulls on something, that something pulls back on the magnet. You put your gravity generators under the decks. When someone is above them, the gravity generator pulls down on the person, and the person pulls up on the gravity generator. You need structural parts like "the deck" and "the generator mounting" to keep them apart, but no thrust is applied to the ship.
Looks like I`m not clear enough to explain correctly. The "gravity generator" isn`t the problem. Problem is, the same devise can be re-designed to be used as propulsion. More then that - there is no reason NOT TO rebuilt it for this purpose. The simplest and dumbest way to use the device - throw inactive generator in the direction where motion required. Activate the generator - the ship and generator will receive some pull (9.8 m/s*s, actually) toward each other. Generator "falls" on the ship, but due to the much greated mass of the ship, large portion of momentum remains. Repeat, untill desired speed is reached. That`s what I mean by simplest reactionless engine.
The thing is with long term zero-g flight is that the training takes up a fairly large chunk of the day, every day. The crew of a ship with a spin section can cut this down to a couple of hours a week, less if they spend time in a gravity environment for things like meal times and other recreation
Anywho, one of the things I want to explore more is vaccum only craft. Here is my idea for a US modular support craft. Think of it of being the VIA-verse version of the SH-60. Obviously inspired by Apollo or Constellation. I'm looking forward to doing a soyuz inspired one for the soviets.
I'm calling this model done
1) Turret on top seems kinetic. Or VIA still use "star-wars" style lasers with barrels?
2) angled missile pods. Will create some pull, that will destabilize the ship, or impare maneuverability. May be it will be better to attach them, "vertically" and facing opposite directions to minimise launch impulse?
Stonecold, i don't see why launching the missiles at an angle would impair maneuvering. To my understanding, the instant they're launched they're independant from the Yan (even though still in their tubes, assuming the bottom is open, and we live in the magic lalalaland of perfect engineering) and don't apply momentum on it. Besides it looks cool that way and i like the shape of the missile boxes
However, (yet again, to my understanding) the radiators are still off, since the vertical ones will dissipate half their energy in the engines, as i don't think you can passively dissipate heat on only one side. You can however dissipate actively on one side by using peltier effect at the cost of some energy, and it doesn't seem like VIA-verse ships lack energy
Why not using 4 radiators and position them in "X" shape? Will be the first X-wing in VIA-verse
that idea could be improved by letting the missiles drift far away and then firing in which case the enemy will find it harder to trace them back and find your ship(although they might be able to see your ship easily if you are thrusting). if they are autonomous enough you cousd even leave them in a system like mines and then when an enemy shows up they activate and fire themselves at it.