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ST: Generations Question

BolianAdmiralBolianAdmiral1114 Torrance, CaliforniaPosts: 2,560Member
edited January 2013 in General Discussion #1
Okay, so I was watching GEN again the other day, and was reminded of a nagging question that's always in the back of my mind... just WHERE on the 1701-B, is the spot where the champagne bottle crashed into the hull?

gen0005.jpg

Obviously, it looks like some form of airlock or access hatch, but has anyone here ever tried to locate the spot on the filming model? I'm just kind of curious where this spot is on the ship, lol.
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  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1804256 Posts: 11,034Member
    I'm looking at part of the storyboard for that sequence in John Eaves' Generations and First Contact sketchbook. Based on the storyboard, the bottle hits somewhere in the port-front saucer edge area. There's no identifiable hatch on that part of the saucer. The closest hatches are the ones that go around in a circle on the upper saucer, the type that Kirk, Spock, McCoy and Decker use to enter V'Ger towards the end of TMP. Though, looking at that sequence in the film, it looks like it strikes a vertical surface. I know, there's no "up" or "down" in space, but they do tend to display things oriented properly in the ST universe. Though, the part the storyboard indicates isn't visible from the window of the room in which everyone is clapping after it hits. You'd think it would hit somewhere they could "see" it (even though it's not likely at that distance, it's a placebo affect sort of thing. ;)) So, that would mean it hits somewhere in the port-front secondary hull. And, to my knowledge, there are no hatches there.

    Of course, that was probably something that they built for that sequence and added the hatch to show the ship's name and registry, so it's probably not even something that's on the filming model.

    Y'know, it's funny. All the times I've seen that movie, including in the theater in 1994, I've never thought about it. I nitpick all kinds of stuff about that film (there's a lot to nitpick in that one) but I never tried until now to figure out where that hatch is. ;) I always just assumed it was some random access hatch in the secondary hull.
  • NanoGatorNanoGator1 Posts: 0Member
    The 'no up or down in space' thing is a myth. If it were true, there'd be no 'up or down' on Earth, either. ;) It's a relative measure. That phrase exists to describe the disorientation a space-walking astronaut can feel.

    Typically in a movie when insert/closeup shots like this are done, something's built just to satisfy that particular framing. Although Art Departments do at least try really really hard to make details like this fit within the context of what has already been designed, their real goal is to tell their audience, in 4 seconds or less, what they're looking at. They could have very easily made a generic panel and have been done with it. But.. they didn't. Here's what we see: Panelling that indicates hull of the starship. Signage that says it's the enterprise. A light that helps establish that we're outside of the ship. And... a doorway that doesn't terminate at a floor, also a clue that we're outside of the ship.

    I could ask John if you're really really curious where that's supposed to be. But I have a feeling he'll tell me the same thing I'm telling you.
  • BolianAdmiralBolianAdmiral1114 Torrance, CaliforniaPosts: 2,560Member
    ^

    Yeah, you're probably right. John is one of my FB friends, so I'll ask him anyway... I'm curious to at least know where HE intended it to be.
  • AresiusAresius359 Posts: 4,171Member
    What if it's not a hatch to walk through?
    Remember when Picard opened a hatch to show Lily that they're in space? It was just a window. What if that thing is also just a window? Keep in mind that the rim of an Excelsiors saucer has 2 entire decks, so there's plenty of room for such a closed hatch.
    The reason why I think it's a window-hatch is the writing itself. If it were a door (be that of a walkway door or a bay door), the wiriting would be spread across it, not in some bottom area. And the bottle would've come up significatly smaller than it did.
  • BolianAdmiralBolianAdmiral1114 Torrance, CaliforniaPosts: 2,560Member
    Aresius wrote: »
    What if it's not a hatch to walk through?
    Remember when Picard opened a hatch to show Lily that they're in space? It was just a window. What if that thing is also just a window? Keep in mind that the rim of an Excelsiors saucer has 2 entire decks, so there's plenty of room for such a closed hatch.
    The reason why I think it's a window-hatch is the writing itself. If it were a door (be that of a walkway door or a bay door), the wiriting would be spread across it, not in some bottom area. And the bottle would've come up significatly smaller than it did.

    This is a very distinct possibility... I was looking at the separation line of the hatch's door, and from what we can make out of the shape, it looks very similar indeed to the shape of the FC "airlock" door that Picard opened.
  • BolianAdmiralBolianAdmiral1114 Torrance, CaliforniaPosts: 2,560Member
    Another interesting "flub" regarding the 1701-B that I always notice...

    When the ship does her last flyby over us, after the shot where Harriman, Scotty, and Chekov are all looking out into space from the open hull gash, the Enterprise-B is missing her starboard warp nacelle! It's true... the angle and way which the ship passes over us means that as the camera pans to her starboard side, we should see at least part of her starboard nacelle or even the starboard pylon as well. But we never do. Even factoring in the "fade to" transition to the next scene, we should see some part of the starboard nacelle... don't you think?

    generationshd0328.jpg

    generationshd0330.jpg

    generationshd0331.jpg

    ^

    See... just empty space where the nacelle should be.
  • Chris2005Chris2005675 Posts: 3,096Member
    Yea, the damaged section was a different model altogether... so I guess they blended together this with the studio model... not sure... but this model measured 94" × 54" × 33".

    Excelsior_Class_USS_Enterprise_NCC-1701-B_enlarged_hull_section_model.jpg
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  • BolianAdmiralBolianAdmiral1114 Torrance, CaliforniaPosts: 2,560Member
    ^

    HAH! I knew it! I always suspected that they must have had a whole different model, just of that section for that scene... it's the only way the nacelles would be missing.
  • NanoGatorNanoGator1 Posts: 0Member
    Heh. Often closeup shots of panels are of equipment not actually found on the bridge. As I recall, TWoK was bad about that.
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