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3DTOS Constitution Reboot

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  • SaquistSaquist1 Posts: 0Member
    BC wrote: »
    easily.

    The double hull could make even the saucer modular, parts could be made anywhere like flat orange slices and shipped in and fastened together and then the armor plates laid out over the whole on the standoffs. Before the plating is put on it would probably look like rounded pie wedge tanks with ribs joining them together and a round fan grill like thing enclosing it all.

    The TNG and later ships seem to have dispensed with it (and armor) altogether, their soap bubble hulls seem to be no more than an inch or two thick in some scenes before the SI fields snap up and seal the breach. Ironically the NX Enterprise which one would think would benefit the most from the double hull with easily changed armor panels seems to have the same single hull arrangement as the TNG era ships it resembles, and not even particularly thick hull at that judging by the thickness of the hull patches the alien repair station was holding in its claws in one episode.

    To be specific the saucer could be made of modular parts but not modular itself. (though the likely hood is every saucer we've seen except Sovereign and others are modular) But that is exactly how the the saucers should be assembled. Section construction makes large designs so much easier as long as everyone holds there tolerances. No waiting for a area to be completed, no custom work

    (A pet Peeve)

    For those that love to quote the TNG and DS9 tech-manuals...please realize that this writings are sometimes completely non nonsensical. The impulse "rocket" engine is one of them. Someone mentioned the torpedoes and how they travel at warp....

    Torpedo Warp Sustainers is absolutely False.
    Just think about it for a moment....

    When firing torpedoes at warp behind you SUSTAINERS are fine but it's a basic premise of physics that in order to catch a vehicle in front you traveling at warp 9.6 then clearly you can't simply SUSTAIN the warp field and speed...you need to travel faster than your target as a missile just like any missile does. So when Voyager took out Equinox her torpedoes reached their target with as much differential speed as though they were in normal space which means torpedoes travel over warp 9.99 (7912 times c)

    (which is extremely absurd for the size vehicle they are)
    If Trek ever went back into production those 6 foot coffins would only be fore sub warp torpedoes.
  • Hunter GHunter G477 Posts: 383Member
    edited May 2020 #183
    I just want to point out (and hopefully this makes sense) the idea that I'm going with in rebooting the Connie, as well as Star Trek. I like to think of a movie or a TV series as a representation of a story. For instance, lets pretend that Star Trek really happened in an alternate universe, and writers now made it into a story. We all know that media representing real life isn't exactly the same. What I'm trying to say is that the people who made the TOS series in the 60's made their representation with the resources and the budget that they had at the time. Naturally special effects and stuff like that has improved through the years. Now I'm using what resources are available to me to make a more modern representation. I'm speaking on terms of visual and sound design that is. The story however, will not change. I plan to show clips from the TOS era in the future. The designs will look more modern, and it will kind of be assumed that that's how it's always looked.
    Well, it made sense in my head! :runs:
    Post edited by Hunter G on
  • Judge Death.Judge Death.1 Posts: 0Member
    Yeah, I agree with this, star trek could use a clean reboot. Now I don't want it to be JJA trek, which I hated and saw more as "die hard in space" than star trek. But yes, trek could use a reboot with a consistency officer on hand, and a science officer to stop all this "fantasy particle of the week causing bizarre rifts in the continuum of the plotfield" or something.

    Likewise, if we could drop the balonium element of the week that would be nice to. I once made up an element for a trek story I was doing as a parody and called it "Manurite".

    As to the original series, you uttelry have to ignore some episodes or the whole series falls apart. "Plato's stepchildren" is a terrible offender here and the best example. Oh, so parmen could just reach out with his 'power" and overpower the enterprise, even destroy it if he wanted. But that's cool, kirk and spock can take an injection and make themselves TWICE as powerful in a little while. Oh, great. Who needs starfleet at all then? Just send out small ships with people who are doped full of the balonium element that gives them that power and take out the klingon fleet in a couple weeks. Borg coming? No problem, we'll just give somene a real big dose of balonium and that's all.

    Now look at 'changling". Wow, that ep bit it's own tail and the writer didn't notice. Nomad cuts loose with attacks that have the energy of 90 photon torpedoes, according to spock's analysis, and enterprise survives several of them. A minute later kirk orders a photon torpedo fired at the source of the attack and seems amazed that anything could absorb that much power. Uh, haven't your shields been stopping like 90 times that much power recently? Also, ONE photon torpedo? That's all you fired?

    Doomsday machine, great ep bit a big flaw. No one fired down the planet killer's throat? ALL the shots they fired were at the hull and not down the throat despite having LoS to it?

    I suppose you could argue photon torpedoes couldn't work as the DM could somehow neutralize antimatter. I won't even get into the physics of that. That's also why the fusion explosion took it out in the end.

    Now, as to warp in a solar system, in "Elain of troyius" (Yes, I know that's not how it was spelled) Scotty admitted it was unusual to travel from planet to planet in a star system on impulse power. Well, yeah, at sublight speeds it could take hours or days depending on how far sublight you're going to do what would take warp a few minutes to do. So they used warp over interplanetary distances.

    In STTMP, they moved away from earth on impulse power, and apparently went to half light speed in a few minutes, so impulse isn't normal rocket type power at all. (At 25 G acceleration it would take about 2 weeks to reach half c.) Maybe that was because enterprise' new engines were still uncertain and they were told not to engage them too close to earth.

    But as to warp in a solar system, in ST4 they warped the bird of prey while in earth's atmosphere!

    Seriously, you need to really just say at times some things were done for dramatic effect and/or by lazy writers who thought something would look cool on screen and to hell with the continuity.

    i'm a gamer, and I've written my own star trek settings for RPGs. Believe me, there was no "Plato's stepchildren" ep in that trek universe. I had to basically just base it on the ideas of trek while cleaning up a lot of details. It's a lot harder to write for gamers than just tv or movie watchers. Heh, in a tv ep having the shields down on one side is a disaster, in a RPG if the ship takes a hit that knocks down her left shields, the players rotate the ship essentially 'upside down" and turn the right shields toward the enemy, not turning the whole ship as in a normal turn, but rotating it along the forward axis as it's moving.

    It's not just trek, of course. Ever seen gamers playing star wars? "Uh, yeah, skim along this narrow trench with stuff firing at us in a limited space we can't maneuver in and have tie fighters coming at us from behind, so we can fire some missiles along the trench that will magically turn 90 degrees sharp and go down this shaft to hit the reactor? Uh, yeah, no. I'm going to dive straight down at that shaft opening from above and fire the missiles straight down it."
  • SaquistSaquist1 Posts: 0Member
    In Trek torpedoes should be the ultimate weapon.
    -We should rarely see ships close within visual range.
    -Phasers would be useless because their of 200,000 Mile tactical range
    -Torpedoes would have an effective distance of 14 BILLION MILES (That's the span of the solar-system from one side to the other) and would cover that distance in seconds.
    -Torpedoes would have devastating effects against planet with just the warp field's shearing force
    -A Cruise Torpedo would be the norm not the exception. Equiped with zero point energy like the Quantum Torpeodo should make a cruising weapon like this a one-kill weapon.

    As it is no starship can outrun a torpedo in Trek.
    Equipped with real science and physics space battle tactics in Trek become more like Sub-warfare.

    -Everyone would HAVE to use cloaking devices
    -First to Fire usually wins
    -Short Warp Jumps could save your ship if planned correctly
    -Large area weapons that affect entire star systems would be the only way to deal with warp jumping evasion and cloaks.
  • Hunter GHunter G477 Posts: 383Member
    You guys are on the same page as me. You know, I also don't like the idea of all powerful beings, or entities. That's always been way to unrealistic for me.
  • SaquistSaquist1 Posts: 0Member
    Hunter G wrote: »
    You guys are on the same page as me. You know, I also don't like the idea of all powerful beings, or entities. That's always been way to in realistic for me.

    Frankly I'm okay with Power beings under a couple of caveats:

    Humans are one of a few Intelligent species to achieve space flight.
    In our Galaxy there should not be an unlimited supply of Intelligent Species in space. Faster than light is hard enough but even the possibility that the 4 Quadrants of the Milkyway were suitable for the development of life and managed to create the delicate amino acid materials (on chance alone) and those materials just happened to rain down on a solar system that WASN'T being irradiated by Gamma Ray Burst by a collapsing Star withing 5,000 lightyears, or the Black Hole at Sagittarius A at some point in the last 4 billion years is the long odds on any bet.

    No more than a dozen species in our quad of the Galaxy period to develop intelligence and longer odds they got interstellar space Flight. it took this solar system 4 Billion years to get here and some scientist believe that some our extinctions such as the Ordovician extinction was caused by such events.

    So...
    A superpower being species has better odds developing in Galaxies with NO Supermassive Black hole or in one that has no sustained a galactic collision for a significant portion of a Billion Years. But then those Galaxy are the ones with Older stars and less of a mix of the right elements to create Earth like planets with the magnetic fields (Iron) and Complex Isotopes (to sustain a hot core) to allow an atmosphere to survive solar radiation...plus their sun in such a Galaxy would have to be far from the others of Old GIANT Stars not to incur all that radiation from the rest of the Galaxy keeping out cosmic rays....

    Frankly it's more likely that superbeings inhabit other universes (if the multiverse exist).
    So superbeings would be limited to one and unlikely they would find humanity in the soup of Galaxies in our universe...

    (unless they created us)
  • Judge Death.Judge Death.1 Posts: 0Member
    Saquist wrote: »
    In Trek torpedoes should be the ultimate weapon.
    -We should rarely see ships close within visual range.
    -Phasers would be useless because their of 200,000 Mile tactical range
    -Torpedoes would have an effective distance of 14 BILLION MILES (That's the span of the solar-system from one side to the other) and would cover that distance in seconds.
    -Torpedoes would have devastating effects against planet with just the warp field's shearing force
    -A Cruise Torpedo would be the norm not the exception. Equiped with zero point energy like the Quantum Torpeodo should make a cruising weapon like this a one-kill weapon.

    As it is no starship can outrun a torpedo in Trek.
    Equipped with real science and physics space battle tactics in Trek become more like Sub-warfare.

    -Everyone would HAVE to use cloaking devices
    -First to Fire usually wins
    -Short Warp Jumps could save your ship if planned correctly
    -Large area weapons that affect entire star systems would be the only way to deal with warp jumping evasion and cloaks.

    One thing we've never seen so far is a anti torpedo system. It was hinted at in ST2 when reliant fired a rear tube at enterprise and kirk power power to phasers.
  • SaquistSaquist1 Posts: 0Member
    Yes in Normal Trek is a bit nebulous as to whether torps travel at warp or sub warp.
    At such short ranges the question might be academic and irrelevant as for the sake of causality a torpedo shouldn't be able to accelerate to warp speed because it would literally arrive before it left.

    Thus with Faster than light sensors even the light speed limited phasers could auto correct for trajectory and speed, and shoot down torpedoes. But that's presuming phasers can target, charge and fire in the second between launch and impact. It all depends on the acceleration of the weapon leaving the tube and whether that acceleration peaks quickly or is constantly accelerating on it's trajectory.

    No wonder Sulu said in the Book (Dreams of the Ravens) that such a tactic would require a formula, because no human could make such an attempt even at the range of Moon to the Earth which is a phaser's best possible range to avoid time dilation.
  • BCBC0 Posts: 0Member
    You need to realize the show was written by a bunch of writers and there was no consistency control, like, say, battlestar galactica's reboot had. God, even in DS9 there was an ep where they made a big deal about going to warp in a solar system being dangerous to the whole system, like that hadn't been happening since TOS!

    Trek has long been plagued by inconsistency and such, later SF shows, but not trek ones it seems, learned to have some sort of consistency and more care to continuity.

    BTW, the constitution class was a federation ship, not vulcan or terran made.

    I was talking about there they were constructed; the design itself is Federation but they are constructed at various yards and at the time of TOS the planet that did the construction of a particular ship was usually the one that mainly crewed it. Enterprise was constructed in Terran orbit, Intrepid was constructed in Vulcan orbit (though it still was named with the same Terra-centric naming convention).
  • Judge Death.Judge Death.1 Posts: 0Member
    Or it could have been a vulcan word than translated out to intrepid.
  • Hunter GHunter G477 Posts: 383Member
    edited May 2020 #192
    Ok, it's been a while, but I finally got started on my new version today. Since I'm focusing more on music right now, you won't see very many frequent updates, so here's the first one:

    [img][/img]
    Post edited by Hunter G on
  • StarscreamStarscream229 Posts: 1,049Member
    Nice! Looks like a true precursor to the TMP refit. :)
  • Judge Death.Judge Death.1 Posts: 0Member
    Like it. I'd never seen those big divots in the original E, glad they're gone here.
  • SaquistSaquist1 Posts: 0Member
    I miss the raised shield grid but with or without it this is far more sensible, Hunter, and rather elegant.
  • Hunter GHunter G477 Posts: 383Member
    Thanks guys! I'll be redoing the shield grid anyway. It doesn't agree with extreme close-ups.
  • Hunter GHunter G477 Posts: 383Member
    Ok, after a long break from Blender, I sat down today and started working on a way to panel the ship. Here's what I have so far. It's not a good quality render, but it's enough to give you the idea.
    progress_2.png
  • PhoenixfettPhoenixfett172 Posts: 26Member
    ok only found this thread today, but i love it :D if only i could get such results in 3d max :(
  • BrandenbergBrandenberg1562 CaliforniaPosts: 1,877Member
    My only comment, Hunter, and I wish to only be constructive, is that if you put too many panel lines on it, your ship will begin to look like it is made of brick. (I've) Been there, done that... That's all I'm sayin.:)

    I hope you know, I love your work.
  • SaquistSaquist1 Posts: 0Member
    He's right.
  • Hunter GHunter G477 Posts: 383Member
    I know what you mean about it looking like bricks. That was actually my first reaction to the results. I'll probably just stick with the sheild grid and do the panels the normal way, with textures.
  • Hunter GHunter G477 Posts: 383Member
    I need to get back to work on this project, it's been too long.
  • SaquistSaquist1 Posts: 0Member
    I know it seems like it'll never finished but keep at it.
  • SylkRodeSylkRode0 Posts: 0Member
    Have you seen the version made by Vektor Visuals? I especially like his bussard arrays.
    http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=58313&page=24
  • Hunter GHunter G477 Posts: 383Member
    Saquist wrote: »
    I know it seems like it'll never finished but keep at it.
    I will, thanks.
    SylkRode wrote: »
    Have you seen the version made by Vektor Visuals? I especially like his bussard arrays.
    http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=58313&page=24

    I have seen it, in fact his is the first reboot I saw that I actually liked. It inspired me to try my own version. :)
  • Hunter GHunter G477 Posts: 383Member
    After seeing all those really professional models out there of starships, I was beginning to be disappointed with my results. So I decided to make a compilation of all my previous versions of the Enterprise to make me feel better, and it worked! Just look at how terrible my CG used to be:
  • SanderleeSanderlee1 Posts: 0Member
    Versions 3, 5, and 6 are all excellent, Hunter, though for different reasons.

    I think you showed dramatic improvement not just through the series but especially between versions 4 and 5. This is especially noticeable in both your texturing as well as your lighting.

    Keep at it, you're already better than most.
  • McCMcC347 Posts: 697Member
    What Sanderlee said. Yours is one of my favorite interpretations of the Constitution to date. It boggles my mind that you'd be at all disappointed in the work you've shown us in this thread; it's some really great stuff!

    "All those really professional models out there" could easily include this one once it's finished, IMHO.

    You just need to, y'know, finish it. ;)
  • Hunter GHunter G477 Posts: 383Member
    Sanderlee wrote: »
    Versions 3, 5, and 6 are all excellent, Hunter, though for different reasons.

    I think you showed dramatic improvement not just through the series but especially between versions 4 and 5. This is especially noticeable in both your texturing as well as your lighting.

    Keep at it, you're already better than most.
    McC wrote: »
    What Sanderlee said. Yours is one of my favorite interpretations of the Constitution to date. It boggles my mind that you'd be at all disappointed in the work you've shown us in this thread; it's some really great stuff!

    "All those really professional models out there" could easily include this one once it's finished, IMHO.

    You just need to, y'know, finish it. ;)

    Thanks guys! After putting this together, I've really noticed my own improvement a lot more too. I really hope number 7 will be my final version. :)
  • saulteniansaultenian0 Posts: 0Member
    Hunter,

    Don't feel bad about the "professionalism" of other models out there. I wish that I was a talented at age 17. Keep up the good work, I am looking forward to your own original star trek creations...
  • SylkRodeSylkRode0 Posts: 0Member
    I feel I must point out that it was VektorVisuals later bussards I liked, not the crappy opaque ones in his early builds. Post #227, the 25% opacity forcefield look.
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