Wow, I had no idea. Dang it, now I need to change it up a bit. Haha!
Sorry Hunter, please don't change anything following my quick post review -- I look foward to seeing your model completed
< note that I deleted my original post... >
Sorry Hunter, please don't change anything following my quick post review -- I look foward to seeing your model completed
< note that I deleted my original post... >
No that's totally fine! I'm glad you pointed that out. I'm starting over again anyway (and I myself wasn't completely satisfied with the engines), but this time I'm going to wait until I finish some online independent study in digital art.
I discovered why I'm having problems finishing. In all my projects, I design as I model. I've thought about this before, and have tried drawing some things out beforehand, like the shield grid, but once it comes time to detail, I don't really know where to start. This time, I'm going to do sketches of all the detail parts and how it all fits together, and I might even plan out the topology. I hope to get down and tackle this project again sometime in the late spring.
While I have you all here, does anyone know what the four light panels on top of the saucer are? I've always wondered about that. It might help me know how to approach them better if I know what they do.
Just to clarify my idea here's an illo. The area I drew the red over was what I thought might make a good heav exhause, with some vents over the glowing red/orange part. Also, those things along the central area, you should have another set of them, I drew an arrow to show what I mean.
While I have you all here, does anyone know what the four light panels on top of the saucer are? I've always wondered about that. It might help me know how to approach them better if I know what they do.
Many have asked that same question >> see Trek BBS Thread w/ link below : )
I'd go with the rec area theory given they line up with the main side windows on the saucer. 4 Rec areas, each with a different theme.
That's a plausible theory. I was initially thinking of them as some kind of technology. I think I'll try them as sensors, and skylights, and see what y'all like better.
This may be random, but I've noticed that in a lot of episodes of Star Trek, they reference running out of power or fuel for the impulse engines. They seem to forget the fact that in space, all you need is a brief burst of power, then you can use thrusters for the rest. Opinions?
This may be random, but I've noticed that in a lot of episodes of Star Trek, they reference running out of power or fuel for the impulse engines. They seem to forget the fact that in space, all you need is a brief burst of power, then you can use thrusters for the rest. Opinions?
Impulse engines aren't straight-up rockets. Though they don't operate on the same level of warp engines, there's a mass-lightening subspace field factored into their operation, which allows for enormously heavy starships to engage in maneuvers that they would normally never produce enough thrust to perform. So, running out of power means you can't sustain this low-level subspace field and are thus relegated to thrusters alone for all of your propulsion.
If one continues the mass-lightening aspect to its logical conclusion, too, when the field drops and if the ship's momentum is preserved, it's suddenly going to be going a lot slower due to the immediate "increase" on the mass side of the equation.
When you're trying to shove around several million tons of starship on a tiny little reaction thruster, it doesn't move very fast.
I think the enterprise has an inertial dampener that allow the impulse engines to accelerate the ship rapidly as they cancel inertia, allowing the ship to accelerate almost instantly. In STTMP they went up to half lightspeed in very short order.
Originally Posted by Hunter That's a plausible theory. I was initially thinking of them as some kind of technology. I think I'll try them as sensors, and skylights, and see what y'all like better.
I Agree with your technology thought... : )
For our Prime Alternative Enterprise Project, Ricky Wallace and I decided the four large illuminated rectangles on the saucer were our "Long-range, Subspace Communications Array" -- with the four illuminated rectangles (antennas) all working in concert create the Subspace Communication Array < transmitting and receiving antennas >; thinking that the 4 large platform antenna arrangement was necessary for Enterprise's 5yr Deep Space Missions. --
The ship already has a huge antenae in the deflector dish. I'm not sure why one would make redundant antenna's so large. It's possible I suppose but it make more sense (despite the illumination) that those are cargo doors for large item parts like the engines, thrusters quads and computer parts, to prevent from ripping up the hull.
The ship already has a huge antenae in the deflector dish. I'm not sure why one would make redundant antenna's so large. It's possible I suppose but it make more sense (despite the illumination) that those are cargo doors for large item parts like the engines, thrusters quads and computer parts, to prevent from ripping up the hull.
The navigational deflector (deflector array), aka deflector dish, the main deflector or the nav deflector Is Not a "Communications Array" < http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Navigational_deflector > Unless I have mis-read something here : )
In addition, since subspace communication permitted the sending of data and messages across interstellar distances faster than the speed of light... it made sense to us the these four rectangles antennas would be illuminated! -- But thats just what we settled on : )
The navigational deflector (deflector array), aka deflector dish, the main deflector or the nav deflector Is Not a "Communications Array" < http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Navigational_deflector > Unless I have mis-read something here : )
In addition, since subspace communication permitted the sending of data and messages across interstellar distances faster than the speed of light... it made sense to us the these four rectangles antennas would be illuminated! -- But thats just what we settled on : )
I think I'll go with the communications array theory.
Yes, I know there is no onscreen evidence of communication arrays in the position, yet I do seem to recall that many of the instruments behind the deflector dish may be sensors but also for communications. There have been many episodes that have essentially told us that the dish uses graviton, tachyons and subspace energy. (remember the kidnappings on Enterprise where Geordi tapped into deep subspace frequencies, or the Borg turning the Deflector dish into an interplexing beacon)
The communications array has only really been spoken about it episodes like DS9 (Jem'Hadar) but never hardpointed.
Edit:
HunterG,
I recommend that you detail so sort of connections with the entire array around the saucer and if you're going to do it on the top then add something similar to bottom and the secondary hull. I'll check the TNG Manual for details. It's one of the reasons I didn't go with comm system because it seemed to localized when comms need multiple antennae or one really large antennae to gether signal strength and send from any orientation. I could make your design distinctive.
The original series model didn't have RCS thrusters. However, the TMP refit did.
Yeah, I knew the refit did -- studied her pretty extensively when doing my Ambassador. Didn't know about the original, though.
Those four panels appear to be placed roughly at the same radial position around the saucer as the refit's RCS thrusters. They just happen to be on the dorsal saucer surface rather than the edge.
They did the design work for TOS in 1964, it's hard to say if they even knew you need RCS thrusters to maneuver in space. That was found out during the suborbital flights of the X-15, which was used to test stuff like that starting in 1959. So, it may not have been common knowledge in 1964. I know that they got a lot of advice from NASA when they were working on Phase II/TMP, which is probably why the refit has them.
Speaking as a tech head, I think that a sensor array would certainly double as a communication array since the two systems are essentially identical in operation. Both transmit and recieve energy signals and process the incoming signals as data.
Why not? The navigational deflector is also a sensor and they're not even remotely similar operations. Seriously, that's a good point. They did that on the NX-01, it has a bunch of sensor/communication clusters all over it.
Unfortunantly I found not indication of comm arrays in this section of the ship or any where else from the TNG and DS9 Tech Manual.
That's too bad. I'll keep up the research.
I started mapping the panels for the saucer in order to texture it. I might get my first textured render up tonight or tomorrow!
I've decided to complete version 8. It will essentially be the pilot version of the Enterprise, how it looked under the command of Christopher Pike. Version nine will be the series version.
Ok, after a long break from Blender, I sat down today and started working on a way to panel the ship. Here's what I have so far. It's not a good quality render, but it's enough to give you the idea.
Be very, very careful not to over-model panel lines and fine details that can be much more easily (and better) done with normal mapping. I know it's very tempting to model out every little detail, but you're only adding complexity to the mesh that will make it much more difficult to render out in the end. I've struggled with this over the years and have found a happy, practical medium with my models.
So, I've restarted AGAIN, but technically this is still version 7, because I didn't get very far last time anyway. I decided that instead of making the whole thing, then adding details, I will make it in parts, so I can better work on the details. This eliminates a lot of time.
Here is what I have so far. It took about three hours, because I was trying different techniques:
This model is very good, but you don't need to model all those fine creases. It's much too time consuming and the results with a good normal map will be much better. This model without the creases would be just fine
If you have a modern enough high speed multi-core processor, you can pack a model with polygons without worrying too much about slowing down your render times. Meanwhile, the more maps you add, the more memory your renders use, which will slow things down.
Whew, have I been busy. Dance and college have taken all my time! Now that I have a week long break, I've decided to fire up version 10.
I discovered yet another reason why I was getting frustrated with my work, and constantly starting over. I wasn't spending enough time on it. I guess I had a subconscious thought that I needed to get it done really fast, like the professionals do, so I made goals and promises that I could not keep. Well, I'm not a professional, so this time I will work on this slowly, on my own time, with no obligations or large goals. So far, I haven't stressed about this at all! Consider this advice from my experiences: DO NOT MAKE GOALS YOU CANNOT KEEP! Make them small, and work your way up.
With that little rant out of the way, here is my progress (the top sensor dome). As you can see, nothing big. I am texturing as I go as well. To heck with cycles being slower, it just looks so much better!
p.s. The bump map is looking really pixelated. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to fix it without making a mumbo jumbo image file?
I wasn't spending enough time on it. I guess I had a subconscious thought that I needed to get it done really fast, like the professionals do, so I made goals and promises that I could not keep. Well, I'm not a professional, so this time I will work on this slowly, on my own time, with no obligations or large goals.
I guess that's what I was trying to say in Post #271. You just found the more striking words. But I also have to say that to myself all the time. It's really hard not to get frustrated if you see all the pros around here who are continually bumping out awesome work. So don't worry, you are showing great work here and if it's done it will be done.
The bump map is looking really pixelated. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to fix it without making a mumbo jumbo image file?
I can't give you any advice for bump maps 'cause I haven't come to the point yet where I have to use them.
But maybe this helps. (In case you don't know that already)
unfortunately he hasn't a sepecific bump map tutorial but he is speaking frequently about bump mapping in several of his videos. And he is making really good tutorials, so it can't harm to watch them. As I said, if you havn't allready.
If you quit starting over, you may actually finish.
Having said that, I really like the dome. Though, I'd flip it and put it under the saucer. Here's one reason: in TOS, we saw the phasers coming from that general vicinity in more than one episode. These things look like they'd make great phaser emitters:
They're roughly phaser shaped and you have several of them arranged in a circle. Plus, they have grooves in which they can move and reposition themselves to fire. Based on the dialog from several episodes, we know the Enterprise was supposed to have several phaser emitters, so these fit the bill quite nicely, in my opinion.
Evil's got a point. Those would make for lovely phaser banks ... just drop 'em from three per slot to two (since we never see The Old Lady fire more than two at a time).
Posts
< note that I deleted my original post... >
No that's totally fine! I'm glad you pointed that out. I'm starting over again anyway (and I myself wasn't completely satisfied with the engines), but this time I'm going to wait until I finish some online independent study in digital art.
I discovered why I'm having problems finishing. In all my projects, I design as I model. I've thought about this before, and have tried drawing some things out beforehand, like the shield grid, but once it comes time to detail, I don't really know where to start. This time, I'm going to do sketches of all the detail parts and how it all fits together, and I might even plan out the topology. I hope to get down and tackle this project again sometime in the late spring.
While I have you all here, does anyone know what the four light panels on top of the saucer are? I've always wondered about that. It might help me know how to approach them better if I know what they do.
impulsesuggestion_zpsf9bfc7b5.png
Many have asked that same question >> see Trek BBS Thread w/ link below : )
TOS Enterprise Question... < Oct 2011 >
Thread link > http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?p=5262100
That's a plausible theory. I was initially thinking of them as some kind of technology. I think I'll try them as sensors, and skylights, and see what y'all like better.
This may be random, but I've noticed that in a lot of episodes of Star Trek, they reference running out of power or fuel for the impulse engines. They seem to forget the fact that in space, all you need is a brief burst of power, then you can use thrusters for the rest. Opinions?
If one continues the mass-lightening aspect to its logical conclusion, too, when the field drops and if the ship's momentum is preserved, it's suddenly going to be going a lot slower due to the immediate "increase" on the mass side of the equation.
When you're trying to shove around several million tons of starship on a tiny little reaction thruster, it doesn't move very fast.
Books: [ Ashes of Alour-Tan | Embers of Alour-Tan ] | Blender Tutorials | Blog
I Agree with your technology thought... : )
For our Prime Alternative Enterprise Project, Ricky Wallace and I decided the four large illuminated rectangles on the saucer were our "Long-range, Subspace Communications Array" -- with the four illuminated rectangles (antennas) all working in concert create the Subspace Communication Array < transmitting and receiving antennas >; thinking that the 4 large platform antenna arrangement was necessary for Enterprise's 5yr Deep Space Missions. --
http://madshipyard.com/ThePrimeAlternative/Images/Wallpaper/08_PandoraAsteroidsFinal.jpg
The navigational deflector (deflector array), aka deflector dish, the main deflector or the nav deflector Is Not a "Communications Array" < http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Navigational_deflector > Unless I have mis-read something here : )
In addition, since subspace communication permitted the sending of data and messages across interstellar distances faster than the speed of light... it made sense to us the these four rectangles antennas would be illuminated!
-- But thats just what we settled on : )
I think I'll go with the communications array theory.
The communications array has only really been spoken about it episodes like DS9 (Jem'Hadar) but never hardpointed.
Edit:
HunterG,
I recommend that you detail so sort of connections with the entire array around the saucer and if you're going to do it on the top then add something similar to bottom and the secondary hull. I'll check the TNG Manual for details. It's one of the reasons I didn't go with comm system because it seemed to localized when comms need multiple antennae or one really large antennae to gether signal strength and send from any orientation. I could make your design distinctive.
Books: [ Ashes of Alour-Tan | Embers of Alour-Tan ] | Blender Tutorials | Blog
The original series model didn't have RCS thrusters. However, the TMP refit did.
Those four panels appear to be placed roughly at the same radial position around the saucer as the refit's RCS thrusters. They just happen to be on the dorsal saucer surface rather than the edge.
Sooooo, food for thought.
Books: [ Ashes of Alour-Tan | Embers of Alour-Tan ] | Blender Tutorials | Blog
That's too bad. I'll keep up the research.
I started mapping the panels for the saucer in order to texture it. I might get my first textured render up tonight or tomorrow!
I've decided to complete version 8. It will essentially be the pilot version of the Enterprise, how it looked under the command of Christopher Pike. Version nine will be the series version.
Be very, very careful not to over-model panel lines and fine details that can be much more easily (and better) done with normal mapping. I know it's very tempting to model out every little detail, but you're only adding complexity to the mesh that will make it much more difficult to render out in the end. I've struggled with this over the years and have found a happy, practical medium with my models.
This model is very good, but you don't need to model all those fine creases. It's much too time consuming and the results with a good normal map will be much better. This model without the creases would be just fine
I discovered yet another reason why I was getting frustrated with my work, and constantly starting over. I wasn't spending enough time on it. I guess I had a subconscious thought that I needed to get it done really fast, like the professionals do, so I made goals and promises that I could not keep. Well, I'm not a professional, so this time I will work on this slowly, on my own time, with no obligations or large goals. So far, I haven't stressed about this at all! Consider this advice from my experiences: DO NOT MAKE GOALS YOU CANNOT KEEP! Make them small, and work your way up.
With that little rant out of the way, here is my progress (the top sensor dome). As you can see, nothing big. I am texturing as I go as well. To heck with cycles being slower, it just looks so much better!
p.s. The bump map is looking really pixelated. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to fix it without making a mumbo jumbo image file?
I guess that's what I was trying to say in Post #271. You just found the more striking words. But I also have to say that to myself all the time. It's really hard not to get frustrated if you see all the pros around here who are continually bumping out awesome work. So don't worry, you are showing great work here and if it's done it will be done.
I can't give you any advice for bump maps 'cause I haven't come to the point yet where I have to use them.
But maybe this helps. (In case you don't know that already)
http://www.blenderguru.com/videos/the-secrets-of-realistic-texturing/
unfortunately he hasn't a sepecific bump map tutorial but he is speaking frequently about bump mapping in several of his videos. And he is making really good tutorials, so it can't harm to watch them. As I said, if you havn't allready.
Having said that, I really like the dome. Though, I'd flip it and put it under the saucer. Here's one reason: in TOS, we saw the phasers coming from that general vicinity in more than one episode. These things look like they'd make great phaser emitters:
sens_1.jpg
They're roughly phaser shaped and you have several of them arranged in a circle. Plus, they have grooves in which they can move and reposition themselves to fire. Based on the dialog from several episodes, we know the Enterprise was supposed to have several phaser emitters, so these fit the bill quite nicely, in my opinion.
But, that's just my two cents.