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3DA new Jupiter 2 that makes sense

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Posts

  • AvianAvian175 Posts: 209Member
    Thanks! I also decided to update the freighter used in the original video I made a year ago. I'm thinking this would also operate with the same Unitectic drive the J2 uses. It's not ultra-detailed since it probably will never be seen in close-up.
    90176.jpg90177.jpg90178.jpg90179.jpg
  • FalinFalin0 Posts: 0Member
    Hmm..what keeps all the stuff from floating off into space when they make maneuvers? :P

    Looks great though, interesting concept for a small orbital freighter.
  • GotAFarmYet?GotAFarmYet?171 Posts: 0Member
    Avian wrote: »
    Thanks! I also decided to update the freighter used in the original video I made a year ago. I'm thinking this would also operate with the same Unitectic drive the J2 uses. It's not ultra-detailed since it probably will never be seen in close-up.

    Actually I think you might have hit on a better idea for the Charoit.it would be made of easy to store and assemble parts floor plates, verticle supports with stiffing bars that lock between the supports. The floor plates could easily sit on top of the supports and the drive units attach to the supports as well once again powered by the same drive as the J2. Only change would be the pilots area and you could probably use a smaller version of the pod for it, basically a cylinder or a 6 plate box. The plates could be made of a transparent material for easy of use, and double as a hull patch plate

    It would also simplify some areas on the J2 you will not need a elevator ramp just a door that opens and the charoit could then hover down out of the door/hatch. Also would allow it to be all terrian like a hovercraft
  • GotAFarmYet?GotAFarmYet?171 Posts: 0Member
    Falin wrote: »
    Hmm..what keeps all the stuff from floating off into space when they make maneuvers? :P

    Looks great though, interesting concept for a small orbital freighter.

    Same thing that keeps them on the floor of the J2 when in space, the drive sysetm obviously allows a gravity type system
  • AvianAvian175 Posts: 209Member
    Hmmm... Never thought of using a variation of the freighter as a chariot. I like it! Makes the animations easier for the show, since this is a zero-budget adventure.

    It kinda screws up the chariot bay plan though. But I could work that out. I guess I have some thinkin' to do!
  • GotAFarmYet?GotAFarmYet?171 Posts: 0Member
    AArgh!!!
    Wasn't going to do this to you but if you are rethinking things anyways:
    1 make the upper bay into a utility bay that can hold the pod and the chariot, disassembled, and a crane. This bay can be using the full two stories in that area
    2 make the pods mobile floor move the pod far enough to allow full access to the roof hatch for the chariot and allow the sats to launch form here as well. one hole in the hull allows for better strength and less chances for pressure loss.
    3 the crane can be used to retrive the pod, chariot and sats.
    4 since the ship and pod use the same drive and fuel the ships fuel bays with a pump and lines to supply the pod are enough
    5 move the drive system to outside wall at the saucers rim, and the lower unit then becomes a plasma system.
    -this can be used as a emergency shield for the hull during re-entry
    -can be used as a digging tool for when the J2 digs in
    -emergency landing system as the plasma vents downward, controlelled magnetically
    -also can be used to add thrust for take off, or hard manuvering
    6 you have basically 4 levels:
    -L0 storage, beam weapon, Sat bay with hatch into pod bay for launch (all stores high), sats can use J2 type drive in a micro version
    -L1 main level, all air lock access through here would be best, triple doors and blast release valves into pod bay and out hatch
    -L2 qurters and storage
    -L4 is the plasma engine, generators and fuel supplies, fuel can be jetisoned through the plasma firing ports

    limits amount of holes in the hull, most production shots on one level to reduce costs.
    the quarters if you have gravity tech can use sleeping tubes where the gravity holds them on the bed, can close incase of air pressure drop.
    anyways wasn't orginally going to do this as it really changes around what you are doing but would ease space problems in the ship
  • AvianAvian175 Posts: 209Member
    In the same style of the Freighter, I re-imagined the "Fuel Barge" from the show as well. Here, it's mirrored and symmetric along the z-axis so it can accommodate two Jupiter-series ships at once. Like the show, the J2 docks with the barge without using the landing gear. Here, it is magnetically held in place by three cradles. A fuel umbilical rises from the center to connect to the fusion core.

    This supply craft is one justification for the existing location of the Jupiter's airlock. A jetway-styled umbilical (spaceway?) connects the Jupiter to the main tower of the barge. Multiple barges could be linked in a hexagonal array via the corner towers for fleet purposes.

    progressfuelbarge04.jpg

    Three large Unitectic drives - one at each corner - allow maneuvering of the barge. They would normally be shut down once the barge reaches its designated position. So, technically, it is no longer a "barge" but more of a fuel supply station.

    progressfuelbarge05.jpg

    I also imagined that the barge would be equipped with a couple of Space Pods like the Jupiter:

    progressfuelbarge06.jpg

    progressfuelbarge07.jpg

    progressfuelbarge08.jpg

    progressfuelbarge10.jpg

    Uploaded with ImageShack.us
  • PagrinPagrin0 Posts: 0Member
    This is brilliant stuff. I like the idea a lot, but where did the barge feature in the show?
  • AvianAvian175 Posts: 209Member
    Pagrin wrote: »
    This is brilliant stuff. I like the idea a lot, but where did the barge feature in the show?

    I forget which episode(s) it was in. But here's a screen cap:
    91094.jpg
  • CaptainRoopCaptainRoop0 Posts: 0Member
    In answer to the mystery to the picture you posted; it was taken from two episodes. The fuel barges were seen in the episode "Wild Adventure" When Dr. Smith dumped the Jupiter 2's reserve fuel cells. And also those same barges numbering and all, served to be the lighthouse in the episode "The Haunted Lighthouse"
  • PagrinPagrin0 Posts: 0Member
    Cool, ta for that. I remembered the lighthouse ep, but not the barge itself. (funny how my memory works sometimes.)
  • yiggyyiggy0 Posts: 0Member
    Avian wrote: »
    In the same style of the Freighter, I re-imagined the "Fuel Barge" from the show as well. Here, it's mirrored and symmetric along the z-axis so it can accommodate two Jupiter-series ships at once. Like the show, the J2 docks with the barge without using the landing gear. Here, it is magnetically held in place by three cradles. A fuel umbilical rises from the center to connect to the fusion core.

    This supply craft is one justification for the existing location of the Jupiter's airlock. A jetway-styled umbilical (spaceway?) connects the Jupiter to the main tower of the barge. Multiple barges could be linked in a hexagonal array via the corner towers for fleet purposes.

    progressfuelbarge04.jpg

    Three large Unitectic drives - one at each corner - allow maneuvering of the barge. They would normally be shut down once the barge reaches its designated position. So, technically, it is no longer a "barge" but more of a fuel supply station.

    progressfuelbarge05.jpg

    I also imagined that the barge would be equipped with a couple of Space Pods like the Jupiter:

    progressfuelbarge06.jpg

    progressfuelbarge07.jpg

    progressfuelbarge08.jpg

    progressfuelbarge10.jpg

    Uploaded with ImageShack.us

    You have the "science" down for most everything you do in regards to the project, so I am wondering why the barge needs 3 Unitectic drives instead of just 1 and control thrusters like the J2?

    -Y
  • AvianAvian175 Posts: 209Member
    yiggy wrote: »
    You have the "science" down for most everything you do in regards to the project, so I am wondering why the barge needs 3 Unitectic drives instead of just 1 and control thrusters like the J2?

    -Y

    Good question :) I presume this Station is perhaps 10-15 times the mass of the Jupiter. And the fact that the Station is mirrored in the z-axis to accommodate 2 ships at once precludes locating the drive like the Jupiter's design. Maybe the 3 drives work in concert to move the ship. I'm open to suggestions! This Station may or may not actually appear in the web series. It was done for the helluvit!

    Because it looks like we are going toward all-digital sets, I've designed a version of the Jupiter 2 with the viewport pushed outboard, similar to the original. What this does though, is create a very large flight deck. I've included a quick study showing the scale...

    progressj2revised001.jpg

    progressflightdeck02.jpg
  • CaptainRoopCaptainRoop0 Posts: 0Member
    Wow now that seems interesting.
  • PagrinPagrin0 Posts: 0Member
    The three seats is an interesting change. What and who's the third station for?
    I'm glad to here the series is progressing. Every time I check the web site there doesn't seem to be much new going up.
  • AvianAvian175 Posts: 209Member
    ^ Keeping in mind the original mission before everything goes wrong, it would likely be Pilot, Navigation/Survey and Ship's Systems (incl. Medical, Life Support, etc.). However each station would have access to all systems, and it would not be necessary to have all three occupied at all times.

    If one were to pilot this ship, do you think there would be a more active control system than just "pushing buttons" on a console? Even fly-by-wire on commercial jets today utilize a joystick, so perhaps there is something a bit more visually interesting.

    Below is a progress shot of the main control console on the expanded flight deck. I used a placeholder for the lower displays - they'll be animated and more detailed later. Since the original console had a groove on the front face, I thought I'd carry the idea further and make it so that the lower touchscreen console panels could be opened for repairs/maintenance.

    The glass displays would be retractable. Perhaps the entire viewport could be turned into a giant heads-up display as well.

    I am also thinking the old pilot seats need a makeover too!

    I have been adding pics and videos to the media area of the website. Kelly, the Director, is dealing with some extended family issues so he's been quiet lately. Things are still progressing though it's been slow this summer.
    91196.jpg
  • GotAFarmYet?GotAFarmYet?171 Posts: 0Member
    Avian wrote: »
    Good question :) I presume this Station is perhaps 10-15 times the mass of the Jupiter. And the fact that the Station is mirrored in the z-axis to accommodate 2 ships at once precludes locating the drive like the Jupiter's design. Maybe the 3 drives work in concert to move the ship. I'm open to suggestions! This Station may or may not actually appear in the web series. It was done for the helluvit!

    Because it looks like we are going toward all-digital sets, I've designed a version of the Jupiter 2 with the viewport pushed outboard, similar to the original. What this does though, is create a very large flight deck. I've included a quick study showing the scale...

    progressj2revised001.jpg

    progressflightdeck02.jpg

    Lets see Dealling with it one item at a time
    I really like the look of the space station and the fact that it can handle two ships at once, and you should add a ramp folded to the out side to one side to handle a resupply ship or a 3rd J2. Reason is simple this is suppose to be a far away stopping point, so it was assembled by a robot or robots at that point. You send out three identical or nearly identical ships they fly to that point and are connected there to form the station. Resupply ship can also be a section then that you disconnect to fly back to be resupplied while the new section that just came in is used as its replacement. once it is position there is no real need to move it and of coarse if it is nessary one drive could do it, make it three ships parked together were one gets replaced every so often. a shuttle landing pad on each one is how they get a pilot onboard to get it into port.

    This way your station can be 1 or more ships (3, 4 6 9 etc), based on distance, route, or whatever; crewed for closer robotic for farther or remote stations. Reason they don't move is because they are navigation points as well, like the old radio beacon network we no longer use because of GPS.

    I liked the version where it was farther back, but it did limit the veiw out the front of the ship. The control panels if pushed all the up does the same thing again. I like the walk area in front of the control area, as if you keeped them moved back you can always put a emergency door there to close off the area. Better yet make it a observation area and put the controls behind it in a bubble that allows a 360 degree veiw. lots you can do here budget will be your limiting factor. The bubble would be simular to a gundam cockpit for what I am thinking. one of the main reasons I like the pushed in version is that if you make the cargo hold to the other side of the air lock on the ship you can load supplies there and close the outer hull doors an leave while loaded things into the cargo area. If you are in a rush less chance of leaving something vital on the pad.

    If you decide to stay with the more traditional controls then I would have the seats when not in use fold up and cover the control area to protect them from accidental or Dr.Smith access. The read out screens would still be visiable and selectable information would still be avaible without unfolding the work station part. Or you can also use a Ipad type device to hand the displays and controls as well. Controls for direction would be easy use a missile command ball controller you can also use a 3d display or holo display to look at areas and to set way point through. Make it like a modern ship they follow way points for most of the journy with radar and sensors to stop them from hitting objects to make minor coarse corredctions, they are piloted mostly in port and while passing other vessels.
  • PagrinPagrin0 Posts: 0Member
    While I think you're right about the seats needing a change, I'd keep the headrest bit. Partly as a hold over the the original design but also because these have always been simple and practical designs, even if the chairs were a bit clunky looking.
    It's good to here stuff is still happening. Certainly family comes first with this sort of stuff, so I wouldn't want to add to Kelly's stress. I'm sure he'll be back on board when he can.
  • yiggyyiggy0 Posts: 0Member
    Avian wrote: »
    ^ Keeping in mind the original mission before everything goes wrong, it would likely be Pilot, Navigation/Survey and Ship's Systems (incl. Medical, Life Support, etc.). However each station would have access to all systems, and it would not be necessary to have all three occupied at all times.

    If one were to pilot this ship, do you think there would be a more active control system than just "pushing buttons" on a console? Even fly-by-wire on commercial jets today utilize a joystick, so perhaps there is something a bit more visually interesting.

    Below is a progress shot of the main control console on the expanded flight deck. I used a placeholder for the lower displays - they'll be animated and more detailed later. Since the original console had a groove on the front face, I thought I'd carry the idea further and make it so that the lower touchscreen console panels could be opened for repairs/maintenance.

    The glass displays would be retractable. Perhaps the entire viewport could be turned into a giant heads-up display as well.

    I am also thinking the old pilot seats need a makeover too!

    I have been adding pics and videos to the media area of the website. Kelly, the Director, is dealing with some extended family issues so he's been quiet lately. Things are still progressing though it's been slow this summer.


    Perhaps it is just me, but I am having a bit of a problem with a clash of design styles here. The chairs, like the J2, B9 robot etc.., are true to the design sensibilities of the 60's original. But the consoles being black touchscreens seem to be more in line with something that belongs on Star Trek: TNG rather than an extension of the original LIS.
    Are all the buttons and dials on the control panels around the J2 going to be replaced with touchscreens?

    From a design standpoint, I think that keeping one foot in the 60's and one in the 2000's may be a difficult line to walk. But then again you have proven more than up to the task so far...

    -Y
  • trekie015trekie0150 Posts: 0Member
    Hmm, liking it. I agree that it would be difficult to keep the touchscreen and dials, though it is doable. If you decide to convert the view port into a heads up display/touchscreen info then I would suggest moving the consoles back and having a secondary flight deck there.
  • FalinFalin0 Posts: 0Member
    modern fighter jets have touchscreens, see through HUDS and buttons and knobs, as well as joysticks, so it's not totally implausible.
  • BrandenbergBrandenberg1480 CaliforniaPosts: 1,846Member
    You're right there is a mix in modern fighters. I used to like the buttons and sound effects of the original Star Trek series. They seemed more connected to the control of the ship. It was richer, like playing a fine musical instrument (although come to think of it the only musical instrument I know of with buttons is an accordian). The later tink tink sound like starting my microwave just didn't do it for me.
  • GotAFarmYet?GotAFarmYet?171 Posts: 0Member
    There is a good reason to stay away from touch screens, which is how often they screw up. If you have something on your hand or leave residue on the screen it can take several hits for it to register or it can register it wrong. Seen this happen allot in the medical industry where touch screens are used, hence buttons are back on most machines that drive menus, or the KB and mouse are still used.

    Also imagine you are in a space suit that is grounded on a exposed plate, the capacitance or inductance touch screen will not work. no also because your hand in gloved you will need space betwwen the switchs or touch areas. Also visibility from the helmet will be a issue. There is a reason they are not used every where and never for key functions
  • AvianAvian175 Posts: 209Member
    Very good points about the touch screens - both from a practical and design standpoint. I didn't want to give up the mechanical buttons completely either, so I think there will be an interesting mix of the two. As has been said, the design aesthetic needs to be one foot in the '60's and one foot in the future.
  • AvianAvian175 Posts: 209Member
    Some updates...

    Refinements to the upper deck plan are ongoing...

    progressplanupper01.jpg


    The Pilot's Cabin on the main deck has been given an overhaul with the addition of a porthole. This rear-facing porthole is in approximately the same hull position it was in the original series.

    progresscabine06.jpg

    This whole quadrant of the upper deck also has some updates, primarily with the bath area.

    progresscabine07.jpg

    progressbath03.jpg

    progressbath04.jpg

    Uploaded with ImageShack.us
  • PagrinPagrin0 Posts: 0Member
    Very nice. I like the overall style. it maintains the look of the show, while looking new at the same time. I'm guess the porthole will add a nice external detail to the hull as well.
  • GotAFarmYet?GotAFarmYet?171 Posts: 0Member
    well I understand he port hole I doubt I would add the extra holes in the hull as it actually adds alot of weight to have them because of the framing. I under stand one at the docking station incase of power failureand the large plate winows in the front because of the series orginal.
    I think I would go with were technology is going and use fiber optic cameras, and veiw screens. You can use one per degree or so and have a 360 degree of the surroundings, they would also allow voom and can move inand out for a wide to narrow angles if need be. Once again it can then be used in a hand held device to check any blind areas on the ship or behind it.

    I think the safe room needs fold down beds above the seeats, or ones that can be pulled up and the seats covert to another bed so at least 4 can sleep. I would also add two foldable seats by the door so the ones not sleeping have a place to sit. I would also put a bathroom in there incase they have to be there awhile.

    You might want to consider a old europe hotel option for the bathrooms by adding the water closet to the shower area. It would allow for less pipping and easier cleaning and maintenance, as well as reduced costs for production if the J2 is not a one off design.
  • BrandenbergBrandenberg1480 CaliforniaPosts: 1,846Member
    Wow, that's nice! You know I didn't care for the fact that they changed the Jupiter 2 in the movie. I love your work.
  • BCBC0 Posts: 0Member
    I like the way you have designed the ship, the visuals are excellent :)

    The original show had acceleration effects during takeoff and hard maneuvers so the control couches actually should look a bit clunky like they do (and maybe even more so) since they have to double as acceleration couches and audiences expect things like that to be bulky so they look heavy duty which a spindly chair does not.

    An addition which may also make it more realistic would be some kind of chair arm control pad or ball to give at least some minimal control of the ship under heavy acceleration, the old stuggle-to-reach-the-contol-pannel thing has always been a silly design flaw that people like to point out and laugh at. Powered chairs would also help with the problem of fixed ones either being too far away to reach the controls comfortably or too close to the panel edge for getting in and out of or even taking a deep breath if it is extremely close.

    I am curious why the pod would even need a landing bay as such, it could be done with a clamp pad on an elevator and rails, or for even more material savings the landing legs and hull edge of the pod (perhaps along with the hatch structure on the ship) could serve as the rail shuttles and guides eliminating the need for a platform. The pod-side entry hatch would line up with one in the ship and the entryway would simply be wherever the hatch opens on the ship side in that case. Recovery of the pod might take a little (but not much) longer and be slightly more difficult but the tradeoff in space and weight would probably be worth it on a practical level and it also fits in with the modular versatility concept of the ship in general as the pod would not be so much a full time shuttle as a detachable ships system (it could be one of the redundant power, computer, and life support backup systems when it is in place for instance). The chariot power system could tie in the same way when it is stored.

    GotAFarmYet?'s suggestions about combining facilities would be a good touch too and it would help explain why they are always shown with the laundry and showers and whatnot set up outside the ship when they are dug in for a long stay, all that compactness is very workable and practical but not very convenient. The facilities in drawers concept was a nice touch in the cabins on Serenity in the Firefly series though it obviously would have to be in a separate bathroom compartment with the dorm style setup on Jupiter 2. It could also be used to good effect early on for comic relief, such as having Dr. Smith head off camera during a scene involving others on the dorm deck mainly and a few minutes later Smith does one of his howls in the background with bathroom accustics and Will or one of the others matter of factly yelling over their shoulder "flush is on the LEFT start shower on the RIGHT" or something to that effect.

    Having more control stations on the flight deck is also more realistic, in the original all they had were pilot and copilot trying to do everything at once when they could have really used a dedicated sensor operator/communicator and an engineer during flight operations. Having some controls in the lower deck too, either in the bunks on swing-outs and/or the overheads or in the couches they sometimes showed in use would help too for things like sensors and other readouts to spread the workload around for safety.
  • CaptainRoopCaptainRoop0 Posts: 0Member
    Now that the project is totally shut down I guess this Scifi meshes thread will be too, I am so sorry to hear about it.
    Larry
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