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3DFranz Joseph Starfleet

13

Posts

  • ashleytingerashleytinger1976 Central OhioPosts: 1,221Member
    I don't like Blender's unwrapping tools, I never have. Besides, I've been moving away from textures the last few years anyway. Doing this probably isn't any more or less time consuming than making maps.

    None of my recent ships have had maps. Unless I'm planning on adding space dirt, they stay as I modeled them

    I don't think I'd even do maps for dirt, unless I wanted a specific pattern. Otherwise, I'd probably just throw a procedural on it. I was doing that with success in Lightwave, I'm sure it would be just as easy or easier to do in Blender.

    That Phase II bridge I did a while back is all modeled, no textures. Let me tell you how much fun that was to do all the displays :P

    I'm planning on battle damage being modeled in too.
    evil_genius_180scifieric
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1804255 Posts: 11,034Member
    I don't like Blender's unwrapping tools, I never have. Besides, I've been moving away from textures the last few years anyway. Doing this probably isn't any more or less time consuming than making maps.

    None of my recent ships have had maps. Unless I'm planning on adding space dirt, they stay as I modeled them

    I don't think I'd even do maps for dirt, unless I wanted a specific pattern. Otherwise, I'd probably just throw a procedural on it. I was doing that with success in Lightwave, I'm sure it would be just as easy or easier to do in Blender.

    That Phase II bridge I did a while back is all modeled, no textures. Let me tell you how much fun that was to do all the displays :P

    I'm planning on battle damage being modeled in too.

    Noice! As hobbyists, we have the time available to do things to whatever level of detail that makes us happy, unlike doing something for a movie or TV show. So, I can see why they use textures, but I think it's fun to find other ways of doing things.

    I'll be those displays were a lot of fun. I've thought of maybe doing some bridges with modeled LCARS. :)
    scifiericpubliusr
  • backsteptbackstept1989 Posts: 912Member
    edited March 2023 #64
    I don't like Blender's unwrapping tools, I never have. Besides, I've been moving away from textures the last few years anyway. Doing this probably isn't any more or less time consuming than making maps.

    None of my recent ships have had maps. Unless I'm planning on adding space dirt, they stay as I modeled them

    I don't think I'd even do maps for dirt, unless I wanted a specific pattern. Otherwise, I'd probably just throw a procedural on it. I was doing that with success in Lightwave, I'm sure it would be just as easy or easier to do in Blender.

    I would do it with a combination of shader nodes. Ambient occlusion, noise texture, color ramp nodes etc. to get darker colors in the low spots and scratches and chipping on the sharper edges. Borrowing heavily from Rasmus Poulsen's setup . The image textures can easily be swapped for procedural shaders.
    Post edited by backstept on
    evil_genius_180scifieric
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1804255 Posts: 11,034Member
    backstept wrote: »
    I don't like Blender's unwrapping tools, I never have. Besides, I've been moving away from textures the last few years anyway. Doing this probably isn't any more or less time consuming than making maps.

    None of my recent ships have had maps. Unless I'm planning on adding space dirt, they stay as I modeled them

    I don't think I'd even do maps for dirt, unless I wanted a specific pattern. Otherwise, I'd probably just throw a procedural on it. I was doing that with success in Lightwave, I'm sure it would be just as easy or easier to do in Blender.

    I would do it with a combination of shader nodes. Ambient occlusion, noise texture, color ramp nodes etc. to get darker colors in the low spots and scratches and chipping on the sharper edges. Borrowing heavily from Rasmus Poulsen's setup . The image textures can easily be swapped for procedural shaders.

    Thanks. I'll for sure use that link when it comes to that point. Right now I'm just wanting to finish the modeling before I get too much into materials. I just did the paneling thing on the saucer before the windows because, once I start those, I'm no longer going to be able to keep the saucer mirrored the way it is.
    backsteptscifieric
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1804255 Posts: 11,034Member
    edited March 2023 #66
    I was planning to work on this on Sunday because I was off work, but I had a 5 hour power outage due to high winds (high for Southwest Ohio) that really threw a monkey wrench in my plans for that day. I have to work today, but I don't have to go in for a couple more hours because I'm one of the closing managers today, so I decided to work on this ship a bit.

    Basically, I did those windows and glowy panel bits on the saucer section. Unlike the filming model and blueprints based off of it, the square panels (which aren't quite square) up top aren't at the same angle. They're on the same line, but they're 15 degrees different on the blueprints I'm using. I did those first and I still had the saucer mirrored on the X and Y axis, so I had to separate the part with the back panel and the section 15 degrees forward of it, then rotate those both by 15 degrees to swap their places, and then join them back to the mesh. :eyeroll:

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    For added fun, for the windows and forward round panels that intersect the grid lines, I had to rebuild the geometry there to take the grid lines out of that part to avoid complications with the booleans and (especially) the edge bevel. The bevel would have made a mess of things if I still had a grid line intersecting the window cut.
    Post edited by evil_genius_180 on
    ashleytingerrojrenStarCruiserwibblebacksteptLizzy777scifiericJEScaveat_imperatorsrspicer
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1804255 Posts: 11,034Member
    edited March 2023 #67
    Windows on the B/C deck, along with the rectangle. Also, sensor domes and weapons.

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    Now we get to one of the issues I have with these blueprints. In TOS, the photon torpedoes always fired from the lower saucer, either the exact same spot as the phasers or at least very close:

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    (original effect from The Ultimate Computer, where the M5 Multitronic Unit destroys the Woden)

    However, the blueprints have the torpedo launchers on C deck:

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    I think we can all agree that that's an error. I know from reading an interview with Franz Joseph that he was watching TOS in syndication as part of his research for the blueprints and technical manual. So, I don't know why he has the torpedo launchers there. I put mine on J deck (Deck 10) so they line up to be just over the floor on the deck, as is consistent with the torpedoes being loaded into the launchers via the track in the floor in TWOK. I think this works better:

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    As far as I'm concerned, those windows could represent the weapons room seen in Balance of Terror. In fact, I'm about to go eat lunch and watch that episode. :D
    Post edited by evil_genius_180 on
    ashleytingerStarCruiserLizzy777scifiericJESbacksteptcaveat_imperatorwibblesrspicerCptBenSisko
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1804255 Posts: 11,034Member
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    Just a quick one. I'm close to being finished with the modeling on this. As far as stuff on the blueprints, I still have to do the registries on the saucer and the running lights. Then I'll take a look at the blueprints and see if there's anything I missed. After that, it's getting into "extra" details. I will be designing some RCS thrusters for the ship. They're essential to maneuvering in space and have been a part of Star Trek ships since the 1970s. I also need to do some interiors for the engines. For impulse, I'm going to do something based on the schematics in page 03:08:10 of the technical manual. Then I'll devise something for the warp engines. There's nothing in the manual that really covers the inner workings of the warp nacelles. (I thought there was, but looking at it I see there isn't) I also need to finish paneling the ship, do something for interiors behind the windows, then it's a lot of messing around with materials.
    ashleytingerLizzy777StarCruiserscifiericJEScaveat_imperatorwibblesrspicer
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1804255 Posts: 11,034Member
    Really quickly, before I go to work, I changed the name of the ship:

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    The reasoning for this was simple, I didn't like the name I chose. :lol: I was going to go with USS Heracles, which I've used a lot in the past. However, I decided to take one of the registry numbers from the tech manual that were retconned to be incorrect. The USS Excalibur has the registry number NCC-1664, thanks to TOS-R. However, in the tech manual, it has NCC-1705. So, I swiped that number for my ship. Since I like the name Excalibur, but I wanted to avoid using canon names, I went with Xavier. Yes, it is indeed named after the founder of the X-Men, Prof. Charles Xavier. Fitting, I think, since Patrick Stewart played him in the movies. But, that's not why I chose the name. I chose it because X-Men is my favorite Marvel Comics property and because I like the name.
    scifiericashleytingerStarCruiserLizzy777JESbacksteptcaveat_imperatorCowardwibblesrspicerand 1 other.
  • scifiericscifieric1121 Posts: 1,497Member
    All excellent work, my friend!
    evil_genius_180
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1804255 Posts: 11,034Member
    scifieric wrote: »
    All excellent work, my friend!

    Thanks a lot, bro. :D
    scifieric
  • backsteptbackstept1989 Posts: 912Member
    Lots of great details!
    evil_genius_180scifieric
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1804255 Posts: 11,034Member
    backstept wrote: »
    Lots of great details!

    Thanks! :)
  • publiusrpubliusr547 Posts: 1,745Member
    edited April 2023 #74
    So, I don't know why he has the torpedo launchers there.
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    Now, I might have a single tube between and behind the two phaser banks. In one episode of TAS, phasers and photons were both fired together---the torpedoes between the two streals---as here:
    https://www.deviantart.com/ravendeviant/art/30-Fire-Phasers-and-Torpedoes-766041732

    Now, the FJ can be 947 feet long---note out outsized the bridge is, in relation to the rest of the saucer.

    If you were to put the side view of a production saucer under your FJ---and have the bridges be the same width on the screen---you will see what I mean.
    Post edited by publiusr on
    evil_genius_180scifiericsrspicer
  • Vortex5972Vortex5972320 Posts: 1,201Member
    Since torpedoes weren't physical ammunition until TWOK, it could be that a Photon Torpedo was a highly charged burst of photon energy rather than phased energy streams. In that case, it could be plausible that the photons fire from the phaser emitters. Obviously the rest of canon contradicts this notion but if you're imagining this as the sixties and nothing else you could go with that.
    evil_genius_180scifieric
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1804255 Posts: 11,034Member
    edited April 2023 #76
    I think originally the photons weren't supposed to be physical, but that has of course been retconned. In production order, the very first time the Enterprise fired photon torpedoes on screen is in the episode Arena. That's why they used some kind of pulse phasers in Balance of Terror, the photons literally weren't there yet. In Arena, the Enterprise fired twin red phaser beams and red photons. In other episodes, the photons were white and the phasers were blue. I think as they went along they sort of separated the two types of weapons, but it's possible in Arena that they were intended to be more or less the same weapon, just on different settings. *shrugs*

    I don't really try too hard to stay consistent with effects in TOS because they changed the effects from episode to episode. The ship phasers were white, red and blue and could either be pulses or beams. Then there were the hand phasers, which could either be red, blue or green and they fired either a beam or a pulse. The photons were red or white and the exact look of them changed from episode to episode. Then, in TMP, the photons were blue, before from TWOK onward they were reddish-orange.
    Post edited by evil_genius_180 on
    scifieric
  • rojrenrojren2290 Louisville, Kentucky USAPosts: 1,966Member
    There was a publication from Roddenberry's 'Lincoln Enterprises' early on, that was sort of an early attempt at a technical manual. It mentioned that photon torpedoes were matter and antimatter drawn from the engines and suspended in a "magneto-photon" force field, and then projected from the ship. I seem to remember an image from ST:TAS that resembled that description.

    I remember bits about "warp sustainer coils", how Klingons found a warp capable ship crash, instead of developing warp drive on their own, and how the transporters didn't actually dematerialize people, but was more of a dimensional shifting device. (I think there was a mention of "a matter/energy sieve")

    There was quite a bit of inconsistent stuff they put out back then, trying to make a buck.
    evil_genius_180scifieric
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1804255 Posts: 11,034Member
    edited April 2023 #78
    Roddenberry had some "interesting" ideas for Star Trek. If anyone wants a good idea about some of his ideas and decide for themselves if they work or not, just read the novelization of Star Trek: The Motion Picture.

    For those who don't know this story, here's the short version. When it was decided that Star Trek was going to return as a movie instead of as a second TV series, Harold Livingston, who had been working on the script for the pilot episode of the TV series, titled "In Thy Image," got the job as screenwriter. However, Gene Roddenberry also wanted a crack at writing the screenplay. So, Paramount CEO Michael Eisner had both of them write a rough draft and then he read them without a name attached to either, so there would be no favoritism. When he finished, he pointed to Livingston's script and said "This is a movie" and pointed to Roddenberry's and said "This is television." So, the job went to Livingston. However, Roddenberry was stubborn. Harold Livingston would turn in script rewrites and get them back a day or two later with a note on them asking him why he made some change. He'd look and it wasn't a change he'd made. What was happening was that Roddenberry got to look at the script rewrites first and was editing them to make changes he wanted in the movie, then turning them in. As a result of this behavior, Harold Livingston quit TMP and had to be brought back several times. After production on the movie wrapped, he never worked on Star Trek or spoke to Gene Roddenberry again. Since his ideas weren't being used in the film, Roddenberry proceeded to write the novelization of TMP himself. That's where he wrote in all of his ideas about how he felt things should be done, since nobody at Paramount could stop him from doing it. So, it's significantly different than the movie.
    Post edited by evil_genius_180 on
    scifiericpubliusr
  • vfxartvfxart1246 PNWPosts: 266Member
    It's odd, there are elements from the novel that I like, but it is hard to see how some would play out on screen. I realize that I'm bringing a bit of selective memory to the party here, should re-read as it's been a while. I have to admit to rolling my eyes a bit when others try to say that GR didn't know what Trek was... I think he knew well enough (ahem), but didn't develop the skill necessary to translate it into various media as media evolved. The whole of throwing the baby out with the bath-water that seems to have come along as fan-pros clear a path through his particular forest, some of it is utter crap decision-making for story and design and far worse than if his admittedly ham-fisted mitts were still in the day-to-day.

    And ah, oh man I dunno what happened, but somewhere in the last few days 'Franz Joseph Starfleet!' became a 'colorful metaphor' in my head and now every time this thread is bumped... oof ;-)
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1804255 Posts: 11,034Member
    edited April 2023 #80
    Gene Roddenberry definitely knew what Trek was. He invented it. However, with any long running series, it takes ideas from multiple people to make it all work. He had the idea that started it all, and he did a lot of great work on it, but others added to the idea and enhanced it. There's no question that when it came to TV Trek, he was definitely in his element. I also quite enjoy TMP, I think it's the movie that's most like the original TV series. However, I feel he was more in his element when it came to Trek on TV. After all, he also was responsible for TNG, which is freaking outstanding. I did start re-reading the novel of TMP. I'm still early in, but there's definitely some interesting stuff.

    I'll have more updates on the model tomorrow. I wore myself out at work today and I'm about to enjoy a pizza and a movie.
    Post edited by evil_genius_180 on
    vfxartscifieric
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1804255 Posts: 11,034Member
    edited April 2023 #81
    I'm pretty sure I'm done adding details that are on the blueprints:

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    The round "bulges" on the front of the B/C deck were supposed to be the torpedo launchers. I'm going to make them running lights.

    Still to do:

    *Paneling on the neck, secondary hull, pylons and nacelles. (ugh!)
    *Ship interiors
    *Nacelle interior bits
    *RCS Thrusters? (still on the fence on whether or not I want to add those)
    *Materials
    Post edited by evil_genius_180 on
    ashleytingerStarCruiserLizzy777wibblecaveat_imperatorscifiericsrspicer
  • ashleytingerashleytinger1976 Central OhioPosts: 1,221Member
    Love it! Looking at it, you can tell it's the ship but at the same time, it's not the ship. lol Actually sitting down to model this ship and all the others that have hit it up so accurately to the studio model have ruined me lol

    Great job so far!
    evil_genius_180scifieric
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1804255 Posts: 11,034Member
    Thanks a lot, @ashleytinger ! B)

    It took two Bill Burr specials on Netflix to do it, but I got the rest of the paneling done. :lol:

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    It's subtle (intentionally so) but it's there. Then I also messed around with some of the other materials. Everything is still in the preliminary stage.

    StarCruiserscifiericLizzy777wibblecaveat_imperatorsrspicerpubliusrCptBenSisko
  • ashleytingerashleytinger1976 Central OhioPosts: 1,221Member
    Now you need to make the battle-damaged Constellation version ;)
    evil_genius_180scifieric
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1804255 Posts: 11,034Member
    I did the bussard collectors:

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    Here's a quick look at the inside. Rather than trying to do the TOS bussards, I decided to just do something that gets the look but it also looks like it could be an actual Sci-Fi thing:

    ihsrbcso811t.jpg

    I f***ed around with the domes too long. I was wracking my brain trying to figure out how to do a frosted glass look. I was trying all kinds of things, playing with Principled BSDF and different nodes, I even did a web search. Finally, I had a brainstorm and just mixed the Glass BSDF and Translucent BSDF shaders. I don't know why I didn't think of this sooner:

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    Now you need to make the battle-damaged Constellation version ;)

    It's not super high on my priority list. :lol:

    Actually, my next project is probably going to be the Xavier refit. ;)
    scifiericrojrenSCE2AuxashleytingerStarCruiserLizzy777wibblesrspicer
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1804255 Posts: 11,034Member
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    ashleytingereagledocf15Lizzy777scifiericwibblecaveat_imperatorStarCruisersrspicerpubliusr
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1804255 Posts: 11,034Member
    I like this better.

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    As a lot of people probably know, Gene Roddenberry wanted to add a blue glow behind the inboard grilles on the nacelles for season 3, but it just wasn't in the budget. Since I have no time or budget limits, I can experiment with ways of making it happen.
    scifiericashleytingerwibblerojrencaveat_imperatorStarCruisersrspicerLizzy777
  • Vortex5972Vortex5972320 Posts: 1,201Member
    She's looking good.
    evil_genius_180scifieric
  • scifiericscifieric1121 Posts: 1,497Member
    That is beautiful work!
    evil_genius_180
  • vfxartvfxart1246 PNWPosts: 266Member
    One thing about this kind of work- you've got to have discipline not to 'correct' anything ;-) Be faithful to an interpretation, that takes a bit of doing.
    evil_genius_180scifieric
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1804255 Posts: 11,034Member
    edited April 2023 #91
    Thanks a lot, everyone. =)
    vfxart wrote: »
    One thing about this kind of work- you've got to have discipline not to 'correct' anything ;-) Be faithful to an interpretation, that takes a bit of doing.

    That's why I'm not even looking at images of the 11' or 33" models while I'm working on it. Even without doing that, I can point out several things that are completely the wrong shape, but trying to stay accurate to the model from the TV series is something I've done too often in the past. There's something fun about making a version that's "wrong" by choice. B)
    Post edited by evil_genius_180 on
    vfxartscifiericpubliusrwibble
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