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Got a Star Trek cannon question about 1701 Enterprise

Paul MoechnerPaul Moechner348 Posts: 70Member
edited October 21 in General Discussion #1
In the original design of the 1701 Enterprise, where exactly did the phasers and torpedoes come out of? Over the years I've seen imagery of twin blue phaser beams coming out of the bottom side of the saucer but from my perspective/memory "out of where" is vague. The biggest clue I've gotten lately is that while going through Scifieric's 3-D modeling tutorial, it looks like it came out of a turret on the bottom of the sensor array, but I think he mentioned that this turret wasn't added until later on in the show. And as far as I know, that turret is still on the studio model that is on display in a museum.

As for the photon torpedoes, I'm lost lol since there are no visible torpedo launching tubes in the neck. I never gave this much thought but now that I'm working on a 3D modeling exercise of the ship I need to know so I can make the 3D model more accurate.

And correct me if I'm wrong but I'm under the impression that tri-cobalt and quantum torpedoes weren't in use until the 24th century...at least not by the Federation, right?
Post edited by Paul Moechner on
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  • count23count23337 Posts: 748Member
    The model never really had any canon hardpoints to describe it. Fanon explanations came from everyhwere like the indented rings near the sensor dome being a rotating turret to pop up weapons. Some versions had torpedo tubes like the NX01 on the lower level of the saucer.

    The OG modellers hadn't really planned anything like that specifically especially since it would have never shown up in any shots they did for TOS.

    So just use some creative license, or borrow how the Constitution Defiant from Enterprise did it since that's the closest on screen source.
    Paul Moechnerevil_genius_180
    Formerly Nadesico.

    Current Projects:
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  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1802234 Posts: 10,112Member
    edited October 21 #3
    The most common place the phasers came from was the ring around the sensor dome at the bottom of the hull. Though, in some episodes (The Doomsday Machine, for example) they came from the dome itself. In the remastered episodes, they unified it and had them always come from the ring.

    Photon torpedoes are a bit more complicated. Some of us were kicking around a theory a few years ago that originally the photons weren't supposed to be physical warheads, but rather compressed energy, somewhat like the pulse phasers seen in some episodes. Basically, like a more powerful phaser. In fact, they sometimes also had the same effect for phasers and photons. Whether or not this was the intent, they too came from the area of the sensor dome. Again, this was unified by the remastered episodes. Of course, in TWOK, they had to ruin the whole idea that they're not physical warheads because Nicholas Meyer wanted to do a submarine movie in space, so they had physical torpedoes. And, of course, Enterprise had to further the retcon for that. So, the short answer is that there were no torpedo launchers, unless you consider that the original photons might not have been what they came to be, then they came from the same place as the phasers.

    Though, it's not like the TOS ship was the only ship to not have a torpedo launcher. The Enterprise-C doesn't have one, but that was a mistake. (especially since the episode "Yesterday's Enterprise" mentions them firing photons)

    Yes, tricobalt and quantum torpedoes were from the 24th century.
    Post edited by evil_genius_180 on
    Paul Moechner
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1802234 Posts: 10,112Member
    I'm watching The Doomsday Machine right now with the original effects and the Enterprise's phasers definitely came straight out of the sensor dome. But they're pretty inconsistent throughout the series, as they were making stuff up as they went. Also, there was more than one company doing effects for the show.
    Paul Moechner
  • ashleytingerashleytinger1111 Central OhioPosts: 943Member
    Wasn't there a little cannon on the bottom dome on the saucer? On the actual model? I mean that's never where the shots came from.

    evil_genius_180
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1802234 Posts: 10,112Member
    Wasn't there a little cannon on the bottom dome on the saucer? On the actual model? I mean that's never where the shots came from.

    Yes, you can see it quite clearly in this image:

    85VuxxQ.jpg

    I think that was supposed to be the phaser. But, like you said, it wasn't where the shots came from. Also, it was a single canon and they often fired twin beams.
    Paul Moechner
  • BolianAdmiralBolianAdmiral973 Torrance, CaliforniaPosts: 2,384Member
    I thought the Franz Joseph/FASA plans established that at least on the top, they were fired from two little holes at the front of the bridge module?
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish6345 BurntforniaPosts: 4,851Member
    edited November 11 #8
    The wheenus was added to the current model as it sits. There are some old photos showing it but later shots it is not there as it was broken off by accident or on purpose that is unknown. Most photo evidence is all secret images not publicly available except a few edited ones. SO there is no source or time frame related to those images. Just a trust me it was there. I have many of the scans from the viewmaster visual books which were actual frames of film reprinted so the resolution is that of the original film negatives. Ones showing this area of the ship do not show this detail on the ship. I would not follow any old or current restos of the model. I mostly sourced on screen details and evidence. I would avoid any of the resto images unless your reproducing the restoration.

    Originally I think phasers and photons were things generated by power banks outside of the ship. Hence photon torpedo an accumulation of light energy of some sort. I would follow as what Eric above mentions Keep it all to the area near the dome and phasers the blue ones were almost always off the rim with the 3 blisters on it.

    Oh also do not confuse the DS9 physical model or the other small promotional models made for TOS

    uss_enterprise_three_foot_model_held_by_leonard_nimoy.jpg
    uss_enterprise_three_foot_model_held_by_william_shatner.jpg
    DS9 model
    p53_2_ent.jpg

    Some of those viewmaster slides. One you can see the glue that the little turret was attached with. If it was there the end bit would protrude more at this angle. I cannot find my copy of the evidence photos so someone might be able to post that.
    8023175487_fcc65f64ff_o.jpg
    20121202-215212.jpg
    vlcsnap-2015-03-12-01h44m14s164.png
    Really is up to you how or what to follow. With all the conflicting info and changes made to the model Including running changes during filming it is hard to say conclusively what was where when.

    To make things worse there are some pilot shots and some shots from space seed that are altered. They were fan colorized so make sur enot to judge tone color or color details base don those images. Sadly most of the originals for those what were grayscale are lost to the internet.

    image of it as sent to the smith shows how much was lost and what was recreated. In the end she lost both upper and lower domes (one is shown here but lost or broken shortly after) Deflector dish and bussard domes and related internal hdw. (besides the broken mirror and xmas lights) I think a lot of the small running lights were lost as well.
    16348863599_c8f7799796_b1_zps1747d24c.jpg

    anyhow probably way off from the original question but eh.


    Oh to note even in the current resto the saucer top is all ORIGINAL except in places they patched cracks around the bridge. And the guy in the 80s over sprayed around the bridge. You can reference his WIP photos to see what was changed from what it was. Anything below or outside of the saucer top was all destroyed basically via rattle can paints sanding and even I think at one point house paint. I thinkt he most recent resto left his grime on the bridge BC decks.


    ah found the ref of the little turret.
    wheenus-tos.jpg
    AFAIK there are no other images released. Just these crops. SO no idea when in the ships life these were taken. I suspect they are on the original model. You can see the angle and reference the ring base to know it would be vary clear in the photos above. I suspect it was knocked off or deliberately removed. Again this is my conclusion. IUf you do add it study the upper left image and not the smith photos. It is basically a clear perspex cylender with what looks like a pot on the end with a little hole in.
    Post edited by MadKoiFish on
    Paul Moechner
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • Paul MoechnerPaul Moechner348 Posts: 70Member
    A fellow member of AsteronX helped me download an old starfleet technical manual to help me with a different subject and I found this page and had to share it here. Thought ya'all might find this interesting.

    i7j34lpxa2er.jpg

    evil_genius_180
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