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Star Trek: Discovery [Spoilers]

GuerrillaGuerrilla505 HelsinkiPosts: 2,683Administrator
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evil_genius_180
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  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1801833 Posts: 9,995Member
    I'm looking forward to it. I've had season 1 on DVD for quite some time and I just got season 2 the other day. I watched it on streaming, but I'm going to watch it again.
  • FreakFreak988 Posts: 4,232Member
    edited March 27 #3
    I'll admit it, I am not fan and most likely hate watch it.
    But I am hoping we get some decent Trek.
    Just looking at that little teaser looks like crap. Let hope that only because they spent most of the budget on the show and not on marketing.

    Okay that did not happen either it gone in the producers pockets.
    Post edited by Freak on
  • GuerrillaGuerrilla505 HelsinkiPosts: 2,683Administrator
    There may be a good show buried in there somewhere (like the initial pitch was probably pretty interesting), but I've been consistently a little disappointed in how the whole thing plays out. Like they're obviously trying really hard over there (just look at the episode names), but usually end up messing it up with (what seem to me) really basic goofs in fundamental storytelling. Luckily, it's more of an amused "Oh you!" kind of disappointment than straightforward "They're ruining everything! frustration. I'm actually looking forward to what they come up with, but probably for slightly wrong reasons... :p
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  • P5ych0p4thP5ych0p4th440 GermanyPosts: 316Member
    The best comment, I read, was: „How does she manage to overact in a teaser, where she just has to look up?“ 😁
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1801833 Posts: 9,995Member
    The biggest problem with the show, and really with a lot of modern Sci-Fi, is the reliance on action and special effects to try and make up for weak plot points. The thing is, this has never worked well for Star Trek. Star Trek has historically relied on great storytelling with compelling characters. While I enjoy Discovery, it can't really touch the earlier shows in terms of storytelling. Just earlier today, I watched two excellent TNG episodes: The Offspring and Sins of the Father. With the exception of a couple of small fight scenes in Sins of the Father, neither really has much in the way of action. Instead, both tell a compelling story that relies on good writing and really good acting. They really need to stop trying to copy the formula of the Marvel and Star Wars movies and go back to what made Star Trek great. What works for those other franchises doesn't work for all of them. For one thing, action and heavy special effects are expected in Marvel and Star Wars and, quite frankly, are a lot better done.
  • P5ych0p4thP5ych0p4th440 GermanyPosts: 316Member
    The Manadlorian surprised me in that way. It was very episodic and while there were action setpieces in most of the episodes, they‘re nowhere near as opulent as the ones in discovery. It seems almost like John Facreau looked at the Star Trek formula, when thinking about how to handle Star Wars on a TV show Level. Which isn‘t too surprising, since he‘d done the pilot of The Orville just a Year or so earlier.

    Also the Russos admitted to basically being inspired by All Good Things, when writing Endgame.


    Somehow everyone seems to be looking at Star Trek for guidance, except Star Trek.
  • FreakFreak988 Posts: 4,232Member
    That's because the people that currently running Star Trek don't like Star Trek and are trying to turn it into something it not. That why what they are doing is not working.
  • GuerrillaGuerrilla505 HelsinkiPosts: 2,683Administrator
    Yeah, I think a more episodic approach would work better for Trek. The episodes I've liked best so far would work as standalone Trek episodes. Overarching story is nice and necessary, and no one probably wants to go back to alien/planet of the week with some bottle episodes sprinkled in between for good measure, but not every damn thing needs to be huge end of the universe stakes all the time. I think a few day to day episodes sprinkled in would've someone helped the feeling that the big character moments were unearned. A little less unnecessary spectacle and a lot more subtlety and worldbuilding.
    That's because the people that currently running Star Trek don't like Star Trek and are trying to turn it into something it not.
    Not really a trekkie or anything, but it seems to me that's been an ongoing complaint pretty much since Berman and Braga days? :p
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  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1801833 Posts: 9,995Member
    Guerrilla wrote: »
    Not really a trekkie or anything, but it seems to me that's been an ongoing complaint pretty much since Berman and Braga days? :p

    It's actually funny that people complained so much about Berman and Braga, considering that Rick Berman produced what is considered by many to be some of the best Star Trek ever made, TNG seasons 3-7. Gene Roddenberry was very sick by season 3 and Maurice Hurley had left the show, so Berman was sole show runner by then. He also executive produced DS9 and Voyager, both of which were wildly popular. His only misstep (if you consider them missteps) were a couple of the movies and Enterprise. Yet, people acted like he was the worst Star Trek producer ever, despite many many years of great Star Trek produced with him at the helm. The fact is, prequel shows simply don't typically do well because fans have a head canon about what should happen and they typically never match up with what is done on the shows. That explains the problem people had with Enterprise, plus there was some anachronistic technology. But, that was mostly due to trying to make the show look futuristic by 1999 standards, whereas some fans wanted it to be futuristic by 1966 standards. And, Brannon Braga was a producer during a lot of those years. He also wrote First Contact. And, let's not forget he's an executive producer on The Orville, which a lot of Star Trek fans consider to be more Star Trek than currently produced Star Trek. So, yeah, not such bad guys as people made them sound because of the movie Nemesis (which Braga had nothing to do with) and the show Enterprise.
    P5ych0p4th
  • MadKoiFishMadKoiFish3056 Right in the plumsPosts: 4,464Member
    Berman set the tone for 90s trek least s5 tng on. Only thing I really hated was his NO THEMATIC music. It ruined trek music. Large part of the whole space opera was music. Everything about trek prior to latter TNG was thematic. I think a lot of the hate towards him was how much he was around and assumptions for his responsibilities.

    Braga, well I never liked the guy himself and disliked about 2 of 3 stories. (just watch a few interviews with the guy)

    Also to note a lot fo what we hate about the new shows were brne from latter 90s trek. Section 31, corrupt admirals,distopia within the federation, etc.

    but with all the complaints none of those shows shit on the subject or history as much as STD and Picard does. Even the JJ films besides Into darkness avoided this.

    Personally at this point ignoring canon the shows are just poor in of themselves. Broken characters, lost threads and way too many connections or contrived events. Trek is not the only one to suffer this. A lot of tv and film today is suffering this affliction.
    Each day we draw closer to the end.
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1801833 Posts: 9,995Member
    At least Berman is a Star Trek fan. He cares about the property. He was Gene Roddenberry's chosen successor. Sure, he made a few mistakes, but he kept things going. And, in doing so, he had to introduce some new ideas. Not everyone is open to new ideas. Personally, I think Section 31 should have died with DS9, but it unfortunately reared its ugly head again on Enterprise. And then it became a huge part of Discovery season 2.

    As Freak has said many times, the guys they've been hiring since the 2009 movie haven't been Star Trek fans. JJ Abrams flat out said he's never really been a Star Trek fan. Both Alex Kurtzman and Michael Chabon claim they are, but the evidence points to the contrary. I think Bryan Fuller, the original head of Discovery, and the one who originally said the show would fit with TOS, is more of a Star Trek fan. So, what does CBS do? They fire him and give Kurtzman sole responsibility for the show. I think it points to the direction CBS has wanted to go, which is away from what Star Trek was in the past. It is ironic that they own the property and seem to be the only ones who don't want to make Star Trek like it was in the past. But, as long as people keep watching the shows, they'll keep making it. So, you guys who are watching Discovery and Picard just to hate it, you're doing what they want you to do, you're watching it. That's all they care about. Also, both Picard and Discovery are "Certified Fresh" on Rotten Tomatoes, something they can't resist to put in the promotional material.
  • P5ych0p4thP5ych0p4th440 GermanyPosts: 316Member
    @evil_genius_180 Have you seen the DS9 Documentary? I don‘t think, Berman was much of a Star Trek or even SciFi fan. He says as much in the interviews. However he was hired by Gene to keep his idea alive and that‘s what he did as a mediator between the creatives and the studio. So I‘m not really sure, if making Enterprise a prequel was originally his idea or if it was simply the best thing he could get the studio to agree on. But I‘d have to read up on that.

    As for Bryan Fuller. He‘s been fired off of pretty much every show he created. There must be a reason for that. And while his original Discovery Concept was more interesting that what we got, it still wasn’t anything that I would have wanted after almost 20 off the air.
  • FreakFreak988 Posts: 4,232Member
    @P5ych0p4th is right, Berman is not a Star Trek fan or a fan of science fiction. Robert Mayer Burnett who made all the extras for the TNG remastered Blu-ray & Enterprise Blu-ray got full access to him.
    He has stated many times on his YouTube channel, the Berman was not a fan. But he was hand picked by Rodenberry to do a job and he did it.
    He also stuck so close to Rodenberry vison that it caused conflicts behind the camera.
    But he also had a the good scene to listen to the people working for him. You can really see this with DS9.
    The first two season are not that great, but they do have some dam great episode in them. Ira Steven Behr who then got control of DS9 for the rest of the show gave Berman an outline of wanted to do with the show and he let him get on with it. Behr and Berman still butted heads over things like the season 4 episode Rejoined. Behr wanted to explore more of the same sex relationship but Berman shot him down, so we got the compromise of the episode that was filmed. Behr also wanted to do a transgender episode, but again the idea was shot down and instead we got the play for laughs episode Profit and Lace.

    As for Enterprise, the show we got was not the show Berman wanted to make. The first season was meant to be exclusively set on Earth or with in the Sol System and explore the foundation of Starfleet and humanity finally leaving the Sol system in warp capable ships.
    The Vulcan would have still played a major role in limiting humanity progression. The Second season would then be about mans first deep space exploration. The Endgame for the show never changed as it was meant to show the foundation of the Federation.
    But by the time Enterprise went into production Viacom had bought CBS. CBS was given control of all Paramount TV properties. They then started to interfere with what Berman was doing and we ended up with what we got.

    The only reason Enterprise was cancelled was not due to rating but the fact that Les Moonves hates Sci-fi and had a major dislike of Scott Bakula. Moonves told Berman to fire Bakula at the end of the third season. Berman refused and told Moonves where to go. Enterprise had already been picked up for a fourth season by this point. When it came time for Enterprise to be picked up again. Moonves went back to Berman told him to fire Bakula again. Again Berman told him where to go and Moonves pulled the plug.

    I have not idea what Moonves issue with Bakula was, but he was happy for Bakula to lead another CBS show (NCIS: New Orleans.) a few years later.
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1801833 Posts: 9,995Member
    edited March 29 #15
    Well, for not being a Star Trek fan, Rick Berman makes good Star Trek.

    Honestly, if Enterprise had been on Earth for a season, it wouldn't have been Star Trek. The title Star Trek literally means Star Journey. But then, people were going to dislike Enterprise no matter what.

    Heh, Les Moonves. "Me too" movement got him.

    The problem with Star Trek is that it has to evolve. Obviously, it can't still be done by a 60s or even a 90s standard. But, there has to be a better direction for it than where it's gone. While I like Discovery, it's far from my favorite. But, who knows, maybe jumping ahead several hundred years to a time when there's no Federation is what the show needs. But, I hope it doesn't become a quest to restore the Federation. We already had Andromeda.
    Post edited by evil_genius_180 on
  • FreakFreak988 Posts: 4,232Member
    Well, for not being a Star Trek fan, Rick Berman makes good Star Trek.

    Honestly, if Enterprise had been on Earth for a season, it wouldn't have been Star Trek. The title Star Trek literally means Star Journey. But then, people were going to dislike Enterprise no matter what.

    You don't have to be a Star Trek fan to make good Star Trek, Just ask Harve Bennett.
    Harve also made a few miss step just like Berman. You just have to respect what has come before.

    That the thing about Enterprise, it was not original call Star Trek: Enterprise. It was just Enterprise for the first two season. I never understood why they did that at the time, but after hearing what they planned to do. It make scene why they removed the Star Trek title. The rumour to that they added Star Trek back to the title to bring in views is partly true. But the main reason was it was a Star Trek show and it no longer made any scene just to leave it as Enterprise.

    As for Discovery, I do hope we get something good, but lets be realistic. It Kurtzman and co.
    They have not done anything decent and anything good they have done was just take your brain out and watch. Not something you associate with Star Trek.

  • P5ych0p4thP5ych0p4th440 GermanyPosts: 316Member
    The thing is ... I don‘t like the idea of the Federation failing. Star Trek was always set in an optimistic future, where humans finally got their shit together. That is the one thing, you cannot change without it not being Trek anymore.

    Now you can explore the darker side of the universe, because obviously not everything can be awesome all the time and the further you get from earth or Federation space the more likely you‘ll run into „less evolved“ ideologies. You can also always do drama on a personal level or have some bad individuals. DS9 pretty much showed all of that perfectly.

    I do feel like the hate for Kurtzman tends to be a little too much at times (much like Berman and Braga back in the day) ... but retconing Burnam to be the most important character in that universe, pointlessly killing Hugh and Icheb and Ruining the lives of Riker and Troi. Killing Picard and replacing him with his own Robot Version. And now doing away with the federation ... what‘s the endgame here? Who is this supposed to be made for?

    I always read comments on how the Discovery and Picard Toys aren‘t selling (are there even any for Picard?) ... and I‘m thinking to myself: of course the don‘t. Toys are mainly for children. And although I don‘t have any, I would never let my children watch those violent shows filled with sex and profanity. It has nothing to do with those shows being bad.

    I don‘t understand the need, to make Star Trek violent and raunchy; borderline pornographic. It adds absolutely nothing. The great thing about the old shows was and is, that everyone could watch and enjoy them. And almost every Trek fan I know personally (sadly it‘s not too many) is one because he/her watched the shows as a child. Why would you even want to change that aspect of the IP? Look at the Star Wars Prequels. They might not have been great. But almost everyone, who watched those films as a child loves them to this day. I enjoy them more than the original trilogy. If you want a Trek Show aimed at adults to be a success It needs to be really really good ... and neither Discovery nor Picard are. Banking on brand recognition and shock value alone is ... well ... sheer fucking hubris ...
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1801833 Posts: 9,995Member
    I think the only merch anyone really wants from those shows are the Eaglemoss and Polar Lights models. Not many people seem to care about other stuff. I don't even know if they still do Star Trek toys for kids. Most of the merch It's seen in recent years is aimed at adults.
  • GuerrillaGuerrilla505 HelsinkiPosts: 2,683Administrator
    New trailer:


    also on Twitter, due to region locking dumbassery:
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  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1801833 Posts: 9,995Member
    I don't understand the region locking. CBS is shooting themselves in the foot by not letting international fans watch it.

    But, it definitely looks good. I'm getting an almost Andromeda vibe to it, where it looks like they're trying to rebuild the Federation after it fell.
  • FreakFreak988 Posts: 4,232Member
    Region Locking is just stupid, because we get to see it somewhere else. So what are they archiving by blocking. Christ, the trailer was shown during the Discovery Panel and that is not region blocked.

    Yeah I am getting an Andromeda vibe from it too. (I did not get to watch it past season 1 as it was shown sporadically here UK as I remember. Either that or I as now legal to drink I so was spending most of my nights with my mates down the pub.)
    I hope they don't start ripping ideas from that show.
  • markmasseymarkmassey260 Posts: 396Member
    I never caught on to enterprise because it was on channel 4 in the uk at random times on a Sunday.. i'd try to take my dinner at the time it was on so i could watch it... and hay hollyoaks would be on instead.. that plus the theme song putting me off just meant its something I've never really gotten into..

    i wonder if discovery's first season was set 3000 years into the future and not a few weeks before tos... (i joke) it might not have felt so jarring.. (to me that is) i'm guessing Michael burnham is going to restore the Systems Commonwealth single handedly... :)
  • evil_genius_180evil_genius_1801833 Posts: 9,995Member
    The station both Voyager and Enterprise was on in the United States (UPN) was a local station for some, but not all. Where I lived prior to joining the Army in 2001, there wasn't a local carrier for UPN, so it was only available in my area if you had cable, which I didn't. When I was stationed at Fort Bragg, there was a local carrier for UPN, so I was able to watch episodes of Enterprise there. Though, I never actually saw the show consistently until it was on in syndication years later.
  • markmasseymarkmassey260 Posts: 396Member
    edited September 10 #24
    i grew up watching star trek on BBC 2 here in the uk.. tos was always on in the background when i was growing up... like star wars was... but in my early to late teens the routine was 6 oclock on Wednesday TNG , DS9 on Thursday and Voyager on Sunday... I wish i had as much spare time now as i did then haha... I say that, i used to sit building Lego while watching Star trek when i was younger... Now i sit animating Lego for work as i watching Star trek with my wife and kids.... I guess that's kind of full circle...

    @evil_genius_180 - Respect for joining the army man....
    Post edited by markmassey on
  • FreakFreak988 Posts: 4,232Member
    @markmassey, you had to love those days. Come home from school, fart around a bit, then sit down to eat dinner while watching Sci-fi On BBC 2 at 6pm. (When Wimbledon was not on. I hated they stopped the shows just to show tennis. LOL )

    You also had Farscape on Mondays, and when DS9 finished the BBC started to show Buffy the Vampire Slayer in it place. I don't remember watching Voyager on BBC as I had Sky by then and was watching it on that. (I also recorded TNG and DS9 onto VHS show I did not have pause with the breaks. ;) )

    It a shame that the BBC had it funding cut in the late 90's. This is why all imported US shows stopped being on the BBC and went to channel 4 / E4. (I don't think the BBC even showed the last few seasons of the X-files because of that. Not 100% sure as I had lost interest in that show after season 6.)

    But I remember Enterprise being on Channel 4 on a Sunday at midday. Which was part of their Teenage aimed programs. Back when the BBC and ITV still showed Kids shows at the weekends in the mornings.
    You also have to love Channel 4 back in 90's as at the weekend you had all the classic US sci-fi shows from the 60's. Lost in Space, Land of the Giants, Time Tunnel and Voyage To The Bottom of The Sea just to name a few. plus all the classic Gerry Anderson shows that the BBC was not showing.
  • markmasseymarkmassey260 Posts: 396Member
    we couldn't afford sky haha my mate used to smuggle me a vhs tape of voyager that he'd recorded for me on sky.. so i didn't have to wait all week... i remember getting asked by a couple of girls in the year above us if that was porn... to which i replied embarrassingly "no star trek".... which in that moment felt worse... hahaha
  • GuerrillaGuerrilla505 HelsinkiPosts: 2,683Administrator
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  • FreakFreak988 Posts: 4,232Member
    For those of you in the States, the full 1st season is now airing on CBS on Thursday nights at 10pm EST.
    No news on weather season 2 will also follow.

    With it being now being broadcasted on CBS instead of CBSAA, we will now be able to see what the rating are for it.
    Just remember, that the pilot original aired on CBS before moving over to CBSAA. That first episode pulled in 10 Million Viewers.
  • ViperViper1085 Posts: 654Administrator
    Apparently they've begun filming season 4, or are close to starting: https://www.trektoday.com/content/2020/09/star-trek-discovery-season-four-begins-filming/
  • ViperViper1085 Posts: 654Administrator
    Don't want to spoil it for anyone, but I enjoyed the new episode a lot. Certainly intrigued to see where it goes.
  • FreakFreak988 Posts: 4,232Member
    Surprisingly for a Trek show, I am in no rush to watch it. Most likely wait until the weekend.
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